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Forums - Sony - Sony's Removal of "Other OS" May Be Against EU Law

 

Sony's Removal of "Other OS" May Be Against EU Law

Bad Sony, bad! 131 69.31%
 
I still hope it's an early April's Fools 58 30.69%
 
Total:189

"We reserve the right to temporarily or permanently discontinue PSN and any and all services and content available through PSN at any time, including for service maintenance and upgrades. If PSN is permanently discontinued, Master Account holders will be able to obtain a refund on request for unused wallet funds and unused portions of subscriptions."

Bottomline is that Sony have the right to discontinue service of PSN at will, and basically if you want to use OtherOS that is what they're doing. You don't have a right to access PSN or Playstation firmware upgrades, and it is always advertised (even in the PS3 packaging) that in order to use the PSN network you will need to agree to the terms of service, no false advertising there.

OtherOS is still supported. As advertised. Just PSN is not. It would be illegal for Sony to remove OtherOS entirely (I believe, I haven't looked for any information on that) but that is NOT what Sony are doing/have done, they're moving access to PSN for those who do not want to upgrade, something which they have the legal right to do, and isn't against the EU directive.

Oh, plus if you want to pick on something like this, there's a RIDICULOUS amount of software developers (including large publishers) which get away with the same stuff on an extremely regular basis, such as EA dropping online support for Nascar 09 whilst it was still at retailers, or any developer dropping support for it's titles. Why can't I sue Microsoft because I can't play Conker Live and Reloaded online anymore!? I did actually use to play that game just last year, now there's no support for the original box online. At the time of purchase, It was advertised as having online functionality? 



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Damnyouall said:
If the BUYER didn't agree to those terms prior to buying the PS3, they are invalid.


But they accept the term after purchasing the ps3 thus voiding the previous contract by entering a new one... or did you skip that day in law school?

BTW - your OP doesn't work... it's mostly talking about false advertisement as in if you open the product and there is a missing feature that is printed on the labeling they are breaking the law. Fact is Sony did comply with its description and the user can reasonably expect using the oyther OS feature.



Well its on now, update went live. Downloaded and installed already. Needless to say SOny covered their asses quite well with the information in the update they provided.



it is, it's illegal in the US as well, it's called Antitrust



my signature went on strike, it's demanding 3% raise

As far as I'm concerned if you sell a product with a certain feature and then remove it you are stealing from the consumer. Sure they can choose not to apply the firmware, but then they can't play the games that they payed for either on PSN or new titles. That is fraud plain and simple if you ask me.

 

As for the argument that the manual allows them to do this. First off many countries do not recognize the legality of a post-sale agreement modification. In addition there is nothing you can print that can change the application of the law. For instance if the PS3 manual said that by purchasing the system you entered bondange that would not be legally permissible even if you "accepted" the terms via purchase. Post sale agreements are a gray area at best. Especially ones that are as anti-consumer as this one.



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averyblund said:
As far as I'm concerned if you sell a product with a certain feature and then remove it you are stealing from the consumer. Sure they can choose not to apply the firmware, but then they can't play the games that they payed for either on PSN or new titles. That is fraud plain and simple if you ask me.


Well good thing you aren't a judge because every judgement youd make on this principal would be appealed and overturned and youd most likely be disbarred. Sony is providing a free service through PSN and you abide by their rules by doing so. PSN isn't a right that you are owed. It's a privilidge that Sony is allowing you to play.



letsdance said:
averyblund said:
As far as I'm concerned if you sell a product with a certain feature and then remove it you are stealing from the consumer. Sure they can choose not to apply the firmware, but then they can't play the games that they payed for either on PSN or new titles. That is fraud plain and simple if you ask me.


Well good thing you aren't a judge because every judgement youd make on this principal would be appealed and overturned and youd most likely be disbarred. Sony is providing a free service through PSN and you abide by their rules by doing so. PSN isn't a right that you are owed. It's a privilidge that Sony is allowing you to play.

Well thanks for that insight. Great to know that carefully is at the top of your list too. Notice I said "payed for on PSN" since the online play is free I must have been referring to the content that the user bought for instance games like Wipeout HD, eh? You are right that PSN online play can certainly be revoked-  won't argue that. But disallowing payed for content is theft just like somebody stealing a game off the shelf. Defending the massive faceless corporation is even more insane and morally bankrupt. I expect  this from religious zelots, not gamers. And yes it is the same if Nintendo, MS, or anybody else does it.



XBL: WiiVault Wii: PM me  PSN: WiiVault

PC: AMD Athlon II Quadcore 635 (OC to 4.0ghz) , ATI Radeon 5770 1GB (x2)

MacBook Pro C2D 2.8ghz, 9600m GT 512 iMac: C2D 2.0, X2600XT 256

 

So it's official then? Not just that rumor feeling thing?

I hope they get slammed thoroughly, they really deserve it. You can't just remove features after people pay for them.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

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averyblund said:
letsdance said:
averyblund said:
As far as I'm concerned if you sell a product with a certain feature and then remove it you are stealing from the consumer. Sure they can choose not to apply the firmware, but then they can't play the games that they payed for either on PSN or new titles. That is fraud plain and simple if you ask me.


Well good thing you aren't a judge because every judgement youd make on this principal would be appealed and overturned and youd most likely be disbarred. Sony is providing a free service through PSN and you abide by their rules by doing so. PSN isn't a right that you are owed. It's a privilidge that Sony is allowing you to play.

Well thanks for that insight. Great to know that carefully is at the top of your list too. Notice I said "payed for on PSN" since the online play is free I must have been referring to the content that the user bought for instance games like Wipeout HD, eh? You are right that PSN online play can certainly be revoked-  won't argue that. But disallowing payed for content is theft just like somebody stealing a game off the shelf. Defending the massive faceless corporation is even more insane and morally bankrupt. I expect  this from religious zelots, not gamers. And yes it is the same if Nintendo, MS, or anybody else does it.

Wipeout HD is still able to be played without PSN... whats your point here?



vlad321 said:
So it's official then? Not just that rumor feeling thing?

I hope they get slammed thoroughly, they really deserve it. You can't just remove features after people pay for them.

Yes it is official.

 

The irony I see too is that certain (not all) SOny fans seem to be cheering this despite 2 very important facts:

1. This kills the PS3 is a computer/supercomputer movement. Now it's a great game system and media player only. It doesn't do everything (that it could).

2. The PS3 was the seed for Cell developers. IBM cell boards cost upwards of $5,000 (US) which are now required just to learn how to program the cell for general use (non-gaming). Killing the market of Cell experienced developers is insanely retarded especially if there is to be a successor.

 

From what I can tell there is zero upside from this decision for Sony, the researchers who depend of them, or anybody else. Lose-lose-lose. Of course anybody who dealt with Linux development on the PS2 back in 2002 would have seen this coming from a mile away. It was a tax-dodging effort to get the PS2/PS3 classified as a general use computer to evade taxes.



XBL: WiiVault Wii: PM me  PSN: WiiVault

PC: AMD Athlon II Quadcore 635 (OC to 4.0ghz) , ATI Radeon 5770 1GB (x2)

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