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Forums - Sales - Heavenly Sword sold about 1.5m but devs didn't break even

Kasz216 on 29 March 2010

I mean think about it. Why would they bother paying him to motion cap the character if it was going to cost them tons of money. Nobody knows a thing about his face.

They could of literally got anybody to do it. Your taking all of these jobs that are low paying and would be for him, and trying to turn it into millions. It just doesn't work like that I don't know what else to say.



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letsdance on 29 March 2010
Viper1 said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Gojimaster said:
i bet these kind of stories are very common on hd systems, and we don't hear about half of them-- that is crazy a game can sell 1.5 mill and make a profit

I think these stories are common on the Wii as well. That would explain why developers often ignore the Wii for quality releases.

To my knowledge only 1 developer has lost money on Wii to the point it required them to shut down.  There are several such cases on the HD side of things.

Average break even point for a Wii title is ~300k units.  Average break even point for an HD title is over 1 million units. 

Don't forget that publishers typically fund the development from the start.  A lot of these studios that went under started the projects with their own money and then pitched them to publishers and failed to generate enough revenue to recoup their initial development costs.  Ninja Theory is alsow one of those developers who began the project prior to the publisher (Sony) getting involved.

letsdance said:
jarrod said:

Eh, more than twice as many people worked on MGS4, and it was in development twice as long... pretty sure it's budget likely dwarfed Heavenly Sword's.


I doubt it. I think Kojima went the more traditional way in developing the MGS4. Ninjatheory was very ambitious in their developing with facial mocap and voicing famous people.

 MGS4 had a much higher production budget than Heavenly Sword.   The voice talent angle you are pushing is irrelevant.  

The problem here is that Ninja Theory started the project prior to signing the contract with Sony so Sony didn't front the development money (as it works with most projects).  The game didn't sell like they had hoped so Ninja Theory didn't recover their costs.   Voice talent is such a small portion of the total budget that it's silly to point to it as the blame for profit failure.


It is a really small portion of the budget. Obviously some people like yourself can't comprehend plain english. I didn't know "A few million" out of 30 - 40 million was a big portion... my bad.



Kasz216 on 29 March 2010
letsdance said:
Kasz216 said:
letsdance said:
Kasz216 said:
letsdance said:
Kasz216 said:
letsdance said:
Kasz216 said:
letsdance said:
Kasz216 said:
letsdance said:

BTW - That guy is a career VA. He isn't an actor like Andy. No matter what Andy would get paid more. He may have revernce in the industry but out of it he is a no name. Millions upon millions know "my precious"


And nobody actually knows that's Andy Serkis.  Nor are they going to know the guy from HS is the same guy who was Gollum.  Your being ridiculious.


The people who hired him know. And its in the videos in the game. So whoever plays 1 video after unlocking it would know too. You're the one being ridiculous. You want an example of 1 movie launching someones career? Tom Cruise - Top Gun. He was a nobody but that movie made 350 million and after that he started getting paid millions per role. AND TOP GUN WASNT AS BIG AS LOTR

Your compairing him to Tom Cruise now.

Ok.  Lets look at his IMDB.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0785227/

I'm not really seeing any big movies that would indicate he's making millions or this launched his career... in fact, all his work seems to pretty much be just Lord of the Rings related.


Hm... lets look at Tom Crusie.

 

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000129/

Well, right after Top Gun I see a number of huge breakout movies such as Cocktail and Born on the Fourth of July.


The point is if you want smeagol youre going to pay a premium. Youre deluding yourself if you think actors dont get over paid.

Actors get overpaid.  Andy doesn't.

Is it seriously your contention that the reason Andy hasn't seen any career boost for LOTR is because he's holding out for higher money?

He's playing Albert Einstein in a freaking made for TV movie.  How much do you think he got paid for that?

LOL is it above your understanding that the guy started work on the game right after the huge hit lotr? You are putting serious words in my mouth. But this guy was the writer. Voice actor. Actor. and Director. HE DID A LOT OF WORK! Your telling me a top name guy can get almost a million dollars for talking into a mic for 1 hour of his time and And cant get a couple million from months of his time while doing 4 different jobs directly after he played a role in 3 ginormous movies? get real dude

I don't know if you know how the Entertainment industry works... but yes.  The top name guys make TONS more then the little guys do.

Directors and Writers don't make that much in the videogame industry... while actor and voice actor is the same job.


In this case it's not the same job. Unlike the guy who got paid 750k to just speak for an hour Andy had to speak for a lot longer than that then he had to go to the mocap process and act out all the scenes. The guy was a big name back in '04 when he started working on HS right after the hugely successful LOTR Trilogy.

No he wasn't a big name... and he's not... and yes it would be seen as the same job.

Motion capture people aren't paid that much anyway.

Do you think the Mortal Kombat guys are getting paid big money?  Your putting together something he would be lucky to get 500K for, and adding in a bunch of jobs that pay probably a total of 100K if lucky, and turning that into a million... even though consoldiating jobs with 1 person should be cheaper and not more expensive.


You know how popular "My precious" is? Obviously not or else you wouldn't be saying that. The guy was a cult hit in a mainstream movie. Motion Capture people aren't normally Gollum from LOTR. 500k for a job when you yourself provided links showing 1 hour of VA work from actors gets paid that much? Please... Your silly. In no way do I think Andy make millions like Tom Cruise but at the same time if you want to hire Smeagol from LOTR you are going to pay a premium. Especially if there was terrible management like suggested. It'd be overpaid.

Yes... Voice Actors like Robin Williams, Tim Allen.

That's the thing.  You ARE putting him in line with these people and don't realise it.



Kasz216 on 29 March 2010
letsdance said:
Viper1 said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Gojimaster said:
i bet these kind of stories are very common on hd systems, and we don't hear about half of them-- that is crazy a game can sell 1.5 mill and make a profit

I think these stories are common on the Wii as well. That would explain why developers often ignore the Wii for quality releases.

To my knowledge only 1 developer has lost money on Wii to the point it required them to shut down.  There are several such cases on the HD side of things.

Average break even point for a Wii title is ~300k units.  Average break even point for an HD title is over 1 million units. 

Don't forget that publishers typically fund the development from the start.  A lot of these studios that went under started the projects with their own money and then pitched them to publishers and failed to generate enough revenue to recoup their initial development costs.  Ninja Theory is alsow one of those developers who began the project prior to the publisher (Sony) getting involved.

letsdance said:
jarrod said:

Eh, more than twice as many people worked on MGS4, and it was in development twice as long... pretty sure it's budget likely dwarfed Heavenly Sword's.


I doubt it. I think Kojima went the more traditional way in developing the MGS4. Ninjatheory was very ambitious in their developing with facial mocap and voicing famous people.

 MGS4 had a much higher production budget than Heavenly Sword.   The voice talent angle you are pushing is irrelevant.  

The problem here is that Ninja Theory started the project prior to signing the contract with Sony so Sony didn't front the development money (as it works with most projects).  The game didn't sell like they had hoped so Ninja Theory didn't recover their costs.   Voice talent is such a small portion of the total budget that it's silly to point to it as the blame for profit failure.


It is a really small portion of the budget. Obviously some people like yourself can't comprehend plain english. I didn't know "A few million" out of 30 - 40 million was a big portion... my bad.


A few million would be 3-4 million.

That would be 10% of the budget.

That is a big portion of the budget.  Which is what makes your insistance he was paid that much so silly.  



letsdance on 29 March 2010
Kasz216 said:
I mean think about it. Why would they bother paying him to motion cap the character if it was going to cost them tons of money. Nobody knows a thing about his face.

They could of literally got anybody to do it. Your taking all of these jobs that are low paying and would be for him, and trying to turn it into millions. It just doesn't work like that I don't know what else to say.


Because he was the director... what part of this do you not understand? It's not like they called him in just for the motion capture. The guy spent months (Maybe a couple years) of his time on this project. He had major roles in its creation. The budget was extremly high. You don't think the guy got paid a good deal of money? I bet the programers made a few million each too.



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letsdance on 29 March 2010
Kasz216 said:
letsdance said:
Viper1 said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Gojimaster said:
i bet these kind of stories are very common on hd systems, and we don't hear about half of them-- that is crazy a game can sell 1.5 mill and make a profit

I think these stories are common on the Wii as well. That would explain why developers often ignore the Wii for quality releases.

To my knowledge only 1 developer has lost money on Wii to the point it required them to shut down.  There are several such cases on the HD side of things.

Average break even point for a Wii title is ~300k units.  Average break even point for an HD title is over 1 million units. 

Don't forget that publishers typically fund the development from the start.  A lot of these studios that went under started the projects with their own money and then pitched them to publishers and failed to generate enough revenue to recoup their initial development costs.  Ninja Theory is alsow one of those developers who began the project prior to the publisher (Sony) getting involved.

letsdance said:
jarrod said:

Eh, more than twice as many people worked on MGS4, and it was in development twice as long... pretty sure it's budget likely dwarfed Heavenly Sword's.


I doubt it. I think Kojima went the more traditional way in developing the MGS4. Ninjatheory was very ambitious in their developing with facial mocap and voicing famous people.

 MGS4 had a much higher production budget than Heavenly Sword.   The voice talent angle you are pushing is irrelevant.  

The problem here is that Ninja Theory started the project prior to signing the contract with Sony so Sony didn't front the development money (as it works with most projects).  The game didn't sell like they had hoped so Ninja Theory didn't recover their costs.   Voice talent is such a small portion of the total budget that it's silly to point to it as the blame for profit failure.


It is a really small portion of the budget. Obviously some people like yourself can't comprehend plain english. I didn't know "A few million" out of 30 - 40 million was a big portion... my bad.


A few million would be 3-4 million.

That would be 10% of the budget.

That is a big portion of the budget.  Which is what makes your insistance he was paid that much so silly.  

God, the guy had a lot of work in the game. Your acting like I said the guy got paid 3 million by just talking into a mic. Which I haven't. I also grouped in all of his other work AND another actor who had a voice role in the game. Robin Williams and Tim Allen VA in movies. Higher production and they probablly get (Like someone posted mike meyers pay earlier) 10 million for their voice. Again... they VA who got paid 750k spoke in a mic for an hour. He didn't have a major role like Andy did ontop of all the other work the guy put in/



Kasz216 on 29 March 2010
letsdance said:
Kasz216 said:
letsdance said:
Viper1 said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Gojimaster said:
i bet these kind of stories are very common on hd systems, and we don't hear about half of them-- that is crazy a game can sell 1.5 mill and make a profit

I think these stories are common on the Wii as well. That would explain why developers often ignore the Wii for quality releases.

To my knowledge only 1 developer has lost money on Wii to the point it required them to shut down.  There are several such cases on the HD side of things.

Average break even point for a Wii title is ~300k units.  Average break even point for an HD title is over 1 million units. 

Don't forget that publishers typically fund the development from the start.  A lot of these studios that went under started the projects with their own money and then pitched them to publishers and failed to generate enough revenue to recoup their initial development costs.  Ninja Theory is alsow one of those developers who began the project prior to the publisher (Sony) getting involved.

letsdance said:
jarrod said:

Eh, more than twice as many people worked on MGS4, and it was in development twice as long... pretty sure it's budget likely dwarfed Heavenly Sword's.


I doubt it. I think Kojima went the more traditional way in developing the MGS4. Ninjatheory was very ambitious in their developing with facial mocap and voicing famous people.

 MGS4 had a much higher production budget than Heavenly Sword.   The voice talent angle you are pushing is irrelevant.  

The problem here is that Ninja Theory started the project prior to signing the contract with Sony so Sony didn't front the development money (as it works with most projects).  The game didn't sell like they had hoped so Ninja Theory didn't recover their costs.   Voice talent is such a small portion of the total budget that it's silly to point to it as the blame for profit failure.


It is a really small portion of the budget. Obviously some people like yourself can't comprehend plain english. I didn't know "A few million" out of 30 - 40 million was a big portion... my bad.


A few million would be 3-4 million.

That would be 10% of the budget.

That is a big portion of the budget.  Which is what makes your insistance he was paid that much so silly.  

God, the guy had a lot of work in the game. Your acting like I said the guy got paid 3 million by just talking into a mic. Which I haven't. I also grouped in all of his other work AND another actor who had a voice role in the game. Robin Williams and Tim Allen VA in movies. Higher production and they probablly get (Like someone posted mike meyers pay earlier) 10 million for their voice. Again... they VA who got paid 750k spoke in a mic for an hour. He didn't have a major role like Andy did ontop of all the other work the guy put in/

They also Voice act in videogames... you know.  The videogame adaptations of their movies.



letsdance on 29 March 2010
Kasz216 said:
letsdance said:
Kasz216 said:
letsdance said:
Viper1 said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Gojimaster said:
i bet these kind of stories are very common on hd systems, and we don't hear about half of them-- that is crazy a game can sell 1.5 mill and make a profit

I think these stories are common on the Wii as well. That would explain why developers often ignore the Wii for quality releases.

To my knowledge only 1 developer has lost money on Wii to the point it required them to shut down.  There are several such cases on the HD side of things.

Average break even point for a Wii title is ~300k units.  Average break even point for an HD title is over 1 million units. 

Don't forget that publishers typically fund the development from the start.  A lot of these studios that went under started the projects with their own money and then pitched them to publishers and failed to generate enough revenue to recoup their initial development costs.  Ninja Theory is alsow one of those developers who began the project prior to the publisher (Sony) getting involved.

letsdance said:
jarrod said:

Eh, more than twice as many people worked on MGS4, and it was in development twice as long... pretty sure it's budget likely dwarfed Heavenly Sword's.


I doubt it. I think Kojima went the more traditional way in developing the MGS4. Ninjatheory was very ambitious in their developing with facial mocap and voicing famous people.

 MGS4 had a much higher production budget than Heavenly Sword.   The voice talent angle you are pushing is irrelevant.  

The problem here is that Ninja Theory started the project prior to signing the contract with Sony so Sony didn't front the development money (as it works with most projects).  The game didn't sell like they had hoped so Ninja Theory didn't recover their costs.   Voice talent is such a small portion of the total budget that it's silly to point to it as the blame for profit failure.


It is a really small portion of the budget. Obviously some people like yourself can't comprehend plain english. I didn't know "A few million" out of 30 - 40 million was a big portion... my bad.


A few million would be 3-4 million.

That would be 10% of the budget.

That is a big portion of the budget.  Which is what makes your insistance he was paid that much so silly.  

God, the guy had a lot of work in the game. Your acting like I said the guy got paid 3 million by just talking into a mic. Which I haven't. I also grouped in all of his other work AND another actor who had a voice role in the game. Robin Williams and Tim Allen VA in movies. Higher production and they probablly get (Like someone posted mike meyers pay earlier) 10 million for their voice. Again... they VA who got paid 750k spoke in a mic for an hour. He didn't have a major role like Andy did ontop of all the other work the guy put in/

They also Voice act in videogames... you know.  The videogame adaptations of their movies.


O...k...? and that means what to me? And are you sure they arent just sound clips? Which they would get paid for anyways since its their voice but itd be a lot cheaper than paying them for their time too. And if it isn't clips then again... its probablly like an hour of them doing 1 take on a whole lot of one liners like "howdy partner" "somebodys poisoned the water whole" and thats a wrap



Kasz216 on 29 March 2010
letsdance said:
Kasz216 said:
I mean think about it. Why would they bother paying him to motion cap the character if it was going to cost them tons of money. Nobody knows a thing about his face.

They could of literally got anybody to do it. Your taking all of these jobs that are low paying and would be for him, and trying to turn it into millions. It just doesn't work like that I don't know what else to say.


Because he was the director... what part of this do you not understand? It's not like they called him in just for the motion capture. The guy spent months (Maybe a couple years) of his time on this project. He had major roles in its creation. The budget was extremly high. You don't think the guy got paid a good deal of money? I bet the programers made a few million each too.

You... seriously think... the programmers made a few million each.

I think we can properly end this conversation now.  Because I realize it's not so much an arguement of amount, but an argument of scale.

I'm just going to take a step back, and float these ideas out to someone who works in the videogame industry.



Kasz216 on 29 March 2010
letsdance said:
Kasz216 said:
letsdance said:
Kasz216 said:
letsdance said:
Viper1 said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Gojimaster said:
i bet these kind of stories are very common on hd systems, and we don't hear about half of them-- that is crazy a game can sell 1.5 mill and make a profit

I think these stories are common on the Wii as well. That would explain why developers often ignore the Wii for quality releases.

To my knowledge only 1 developer has lost money on Wii to the point it required them to shut down.  There are several such cases on the HD side of things.

Average break even point for a Wii title is ~300k units.  Average break even point for an HD title is over 1 million units. 

Don't forget that publishers typically fund the development from the start.  A lot of these studios that went under started the projects with their own money and then pitched them to publishers and failed to generate enough revenue to recoup their initial development costs.  Ninja Theory is alsow one of those developers who began the project prior to the publisher (Sony) getting involved.

letsdance said:
jarrod said:

Eh, more than twice as many people worked on MGS4, and it was in development twice as long... pretty sure it's budget likely dwarfed Heavenly Sword's.


I doubt it. I think Kojima went the more traditional way in developing the MGS4. Ninjatheory was very ambitious in their developing with facial mocap and voicing famous people.

 MGS4 had a much higher production budget than Heavenly Sword.   The voice talent angle you are pushing is irrelevant.  

The problem here is that Ninja Theory started the project prior to signing the contract with Sony so Sony didn't front the development money (as it works with most projects).  The game didn't sell like they had hoped so Ninja Theory didn't recover their costs.   Voice talent is such a small portion of the total budget that it's silly to point to it as the blame for profit failure.


It is a really small portion of the budget. Obviously some people like yourself can't comprehend plain english. I didn't know "A few million" out of 30 - 40 million was a big portion... my bad.


A few million would be 3-4 million.

That would be 10% of the budget.

That is a big portion of the budget.  Which is what makes your insistance he was paid that much so silly.  

God, the guy had a lot of work in the game. Your acting like I said the guy got paid 3 million by just talking into a mic. Which I haven't. I also grouped in all of his other work AND another actor who had a voice role in the game. Robin Williams and Tim Allen VA in movies. Higher production and they probablly get (Like someone posted mike meyers pay earlier) 10 million for their voice. Again... they VA who got paid 750k spoke in a mic for an hour. He didn't have a major role like Andy did ontop of all the other work the guy put in/

They also Voice act in videogames... you know.  The videogame adaptations of their movies.


O...k...? and that means what to me?

They're the ones making that high end money.  For example, Bill Murray recently did VA for a videogame.