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Forums - Nintendo - Why has Japanese 3rd party support almost completely ceased for the Wii?

trestres on 25 March 2010
joeorc said:
trestres said:
oniyide said:
its simple 1 they make more money on the HDtwin systems, 3rd party games in general dont do that great on Wii, people like money

2 when then do make a Wii game its usually an inferior port or rerelease of a game already played. Why would I get a Wii version of anything if I know I could get it on the other systems?

3 Nintendo dont need them, Sony does, Microsoft absolutely does, if they never release another 3rd party game on Nintendo it wouldnt hurt there pockets at all

4 not really a point, but y dont you get a system with decent 3rd party support????

I don't get another system because I don't have money lol. But that's not my problem anyways.

Your points don't make much sense, if that what you say was true, the companies wouldn't be posting record losses, as they don't even care to make Wii SW. And Nintendo does need them. DS is not only successful due to 1st party SW, take a look at the crazy amount of titles it gets from 3rd party devs.

this pretty much answer's it:

I think this is the Key

"marketing their own video games"

Independent Publishers/Licensees/Licensed Property Owners

Nintendo licenses a number of independent third party publishers to use its patented technology, copyrights and trademarks in developing, creating and marketing their own video games. Additionally, there are a number of intellectual property rights associated with these games that are owned by these publishers. In addition, many independent property owners from such sources as movies, television, sports leagues, etc. license their intellectual properties for use in video games.

http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#independent

here is a statement:

"High-quality, effectively marketed against our installed base, will sell. Period. End of story."

-Reggie Fils-Aime

but that beg's the :

Question who's going to market the software?

nintendo or 3rd party?

see above/

 

That's true. They want miraculous results with the least amount of effort. They think that the Wii is a magic machine, but that's not true at all. Look at how their big HD games always get a huge ad campaign, something you almost never see with Wii games. It's true some made an effort and failed, but instead of learning from their mistakes they blame something be it too many 1st party games, lack of active userbase, casual audience. They have to man up and make a good game for once.



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joeorc on 25 March 2010
trestres said:
joeorc said:
trestres said:
oniyide said:
its simple 1 they make more money on the HDtwin systems, 3rd party games in general dont do that great on Wii, people like money

2 when then do make a Wii game its usually an inferior port or rerelease of a game already played. Why would I get a Wii version of anything if I know I could get it on the other systems?

3 Nintendo dont need them, Sony does, Microsoft absolutely does, if they never release another 3rd party game on Nintendo it wouldnt hurt there pockets at all

4 not really a point, but y dont you get a system with decent 3rd party support????

I don't get another system because I don't have money lol. But that's not my problem anyways.

Your points don't make much sense, if that what you say was true, the companies wouldn't be posting record losses, as they don't even care to make Wii SW. And Nintendo does need them. DS is not only successful due to 1st party SW, take a look at the crazy amount of titles it gets from 3rd party devs.

this pretty much answer's it:

I think this is the Key

"marketing their own video games"

Independent Publishers/Licensees/Licensed Property Owners

Nintendo licenses a number of independent third party publishers to use its patented technology, copyrights and trademarks in developing, creating and marketing their own video games. Additionally, there are a number of intellectual property rights associated with these games that are owned by these publishers. In addition, many independent property owners from such sources as movies, television, sports leagues, etc. license their intellectual properties for use in video games.

http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#independent

here is a statement:

"High-quality, effectively marketed against our installed base, will sell. Period. End of story."

-Reggie Fils-Aime

but that beg's the :

Question who's going to market the software?

nintendo or 3rd party?

see above/

 

That's true. They want miraculous results with the least amount of effort. They think that the Wii is a magic machine, but that's not true at all. Look at how their big HD games always get a huge ad campaign, something you almost never see with Wii games. It's true some made an effort and failed, but instead of learning from their mistakes they blame something be it too many 1st party games, lack of active userbase, casual audience. They have to man up and make a good game for once.

 

it's far worse than to man up this is a core fault from Nintendo not 3rd party's:

look at this Q&A from nintendo Investor's Relation's:

, so it may make sense for Nintendo to cooperate in their overseas marketing, for example, by us cooperating in both promotional and marketing activities.
We have been thinking in this manner, and we have already cooperated with some third parties. We did it last year and will do so this year on Mario & Sonic Olympic Games with Sega. The original Nintendo DS and Wii versions of Mario & Sonic Beijing Olympic Games together sold more than 11 million units last year. This year, the new Mario & Sonic Winter Olympic Games will be marketed by Nintendo in Japan and by Sega in the overseas markets. Nintendo is also doing some supportive activities for their overseas promotions too.
So, at a certain time in their development phase, when we can learn the substance of the software from the third parties, we try to think what we can do and how in order to maximize the sales. In the days when it is difficult for a software to pay off in Japan alone, we need to tackle the challenges with the software publishers. As I explained by comparing the memory sizes of a NES game and Blue-ray as an example, the development costs are increasing for the third parties. Recognizing the circumstance, our position is to cooperate wherever appropriate in order to realize the most desirable results.

Iwata:
In that regard, I anticipate the relationship between software makers and Nintendo as a hardware manufacturer to change from now. In regard to the relationship, I often discuss with Mr. Hatano lately that we cannot foresee the future by saying, "It must be like this because it used to be that way in the past." It is time we have to invent new ways.
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/091030qa/index.html
the problem is still getting Nintendo to change how it promote's 3rd party software, until it does 3rd party's will still tend to shy away from the Wii.

 



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stof on 25 March 2010

It is amazing how determined third party devs in Japan have been to destroy their home countries console market. the 360 got more major RPG support than the Wii. I understand that your going to want to jump ship when the PS3 fell flat on it's face at launch. But why the hell not do it with the console selling like hot cakes!?

Square Enix's Dragon Quest sword game was the highest selling third party title until Metal Gear Solid. Monster Hunter 3 was the highest selling third party title until Final Fantasy. The 360 took successive releases of major third party offerings to raise it's demand to a level where it actually sells anything each week. Imagine what that successive scheduale of releases could have done for the most successful console in the region.



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jarrod on 25 March 2010
Soriku said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
Its probably just a combination of most Japanese third parties are focusing more on the DS (the system that is by FAR the most popular system in Japan) and because most Japanese companies that try to make games for the Wii don't do very well.

I mean, if you look at all the major third party games on the Wii, there really hasn't been any major 'hit' for the system. Monster Hunter Tri is still trying to break through to a million, games like Little Kings Story and Muramasa didn't do all that great and major third party efforts like Fatal Frame IV and 428: Fuusa Sareta Shibuya de just outright bombed. Its literally getting to the point where third party developers, Japanese or western, are starting to look at the Wii as a system where they can only make a quick low budget game to make money because there's no guarantee if their game will sell 1 million copies....or 100,000. And most aren't being able to come close to that 1 million mark. To this date, only one third party Wii game has sold 1 million based on Japanese sales alone. There's 12 games on DS that can claim that prize.

Its like I've been saying for a while now, the biggest competition for the Wii is the DS. Its giving third parties an excuse not to make games for the Wii when the DS is much more popular and software sells 5-10x better on it.


MH3 hit a million a long time ago...and yes, in Famitsu.

I'd add to that neither Fatal Frame IV or 428 "bombed".  FF4 is actually the best selling game in the entire series, and 428 Wii is Chunsoft's best selling ADV game this gen (better than *anything* they've done on PSP, PS3 or DS in fact).

Also, Muramasa is Vanillaware's 2nd best selling game ever.  LKS was pure bomba though. ;_;



jarrod on 25 March 2010
joeorc said:
January 19, 2010 1:57 PM PST

Third-party developers complaining about Wii's online presence

From the confusing 16-digit friend codes that must be shared for matchmaking to the lack of localized promotion, Nintendo has not made it clear that the company takes online gaming seriously.

What do you think? Are WiiWare games advertised as much as those on Xbox Live Arcade and PlayStation Network? How would you fix the Nintendo online situation?

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10437338-1.html

 

 

While this is true, WiiWare's weirdly the one shining beacon for Nintendo in Japan.  It's by a wide margin the most well supported digital format by JP 3rd parties, well ahead of PSN, XBLA or DSiWare.   Nintendo's actually been the most aggressive in Japan at pushing their online services with stuff like promotional tie-ins, consumer reward programs and even in-store and television advertising... it's like the polar opposite of Nintendo in America and Europe. :/



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makingmusic476 on 25 March 2010
Metallicube said:

3rd party developers are immensly stubborn when it comes to Wii, particularly Japanese ones. I remember back in like 2007 Japanese developers were holding off on Wii developement because they were anticipating a Wii collapse and "waiting for a drastic change." Well lo and behold, that drastic change never came, so they continue to sit on the sidelines and wait for their savior the PS3 to make an impossible comeback, the comeback that will never happen.

PS3 is simply far more attractive to these developers, even if PS3 is performing poorly, its development costs are skyrocketing, and its software barely sells in Japan. This is because in releasing their games on a Sony platform, they don't have to worry about competing with Nintendo's games, which are generally superior. I suppose it's just easier to avoid Nintendo altogether rather than try to actually better their own games and outdo them.

Nintendo's greatest strength, the ability to make great and accessible games, is also their greatest curse, because it scares away 3rd parties that can't measure up.

Eh, Japanese third parties seemed to be moving to Wii in large numbers over 2008 and early 2009.  Monster Hunter 3 changed platforms and games like Samurai Warriors 3, Tales of Graces, and Dragon Quest X were announced.  Plus Nintendo had the support of Suda 51, Marvelous, and other smaller studios.

I'm not sure what happened after that.  Groups like NIS and Gust started announcing projects for ps3, No More Heroes was announced for ps3/360, and other things called into question smaller Japanese devs' support of the Wii, and companies like Koei-Tecmo returned their attention to ps3 in full force, announcing games like Hokuto Mosou.

If anything, I thought the Japanese would be the people to truly embrace the Wii, unlike Western developers.  Not sure what happened.

Also, Japanese people tend to buy a lot of games (often for exorbitant prices), and I doubt they're not buying them simply because Nintendo's titles are on the same platform.  In the West I could maybe see this, but not in Japan.



Innervate on 25 March 2010

Even the announcement that the next Dragon Quest game being exclusive to Wii did nothing to help support for the system in Japan. Many people stated that this basically clinches all support for the Wii there - instead, even the iPhone is seeing more support. NIS would rather risk bankruptcy on the PS3 than put anything other than PS2 ports on the Wii, several games from publishers like Capcom and Namco are showing up on PSP and iPhone (when Wii ports were considered 'impossible'), Square-Enix's upcoming projects (newly announced KH games in development/conceptual stage, FF remakes) will likely not go to the Wii, and the list goes on. Even when they do give us worthwhile software, majority of the time it's sent to die in retail or conflicts with the values that Wii owners want in Wii games, limiting their sales and contributing to the fallacy that 3rd parties can't succeed on the Wii.

3rd parties have built a reputation of distrust and animosity with Wii owners, and unless they do something that will never change. We have already put up with 3 and a half years of inadequate support, broken promises and bad excuses.



Hero_time88 on 25 March 2010

It's kind of weird they have MHIII and DQX, but lack proper medium-big title's with a considerable budget.

Tales of Graces (which bombed hard), Samurai Warriors 3, Sengoku BASARA 3 and DQ Swords come to my mind and I guess that Level 5 game won't be a low budget game either, but that's about it.



joeorc on 25 March 2010
Innervate said:

Even the announcement that the next Dragon Quest game being exclusive to Wii did nothing to help support for the system in Japan. Many people stated that this basically clinches all support for the Wii there - instead, even the iPhone is seeing more support. NIS would rather risk bankruptcy on the PS3 than put anything other than PS2 ports on the Wii, several games from publishers like Capcom and Namco are showing up on PSP and iPhone (when Wii ports were considered 'impossible'), Square-Enix's upcoming projects (newly announced KH games in development/conceptual stage, FF remakes) will likely not go to the Wii, and the list goes on. Even when they do give us worthwhile software, majority of the time it's sent to die in retail or conflicts with the values that Wii owners want in Wii games, limiting their sales and contributing to the fallacy that 3rd parties can't succeed on the Wii.

3rd parties have built a reputation of distrust and animosity with Wii owners, and unless they do something that will never change. We have already put up with 3 and a half years of inadequate support, broken promises and bad excuses.

See I don't think it's the 3rd party's that are the problem, It's the fact that Nintendo has little promotion for third party software for their Wii. that Is a big problem for 3rd party,

One I think may be changing, but the big indication is 3rd party software seem's to be promoted very little by Nintendo, while 3rd party Game's on both the xbox360 and the playstation 3 get's promotion more so than what Nintendo does.

Nintendo see's that they do not need the 3rd party's , and they are right Nintendo is there to sell Nintendo software first and 3rd party's 3rd, the Main problem is if Nintendo is not very willing to promote the 3rd party's software 3rd party's are less likely to make game's for the system.

 



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100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

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Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

Hephaestos on 25 March 2010

Well of the games listed in the op, quite a few are 3rd party cooperation with Nintendo.... I guess that is the way for them to feel comfortable developping for the wii....
I don't mind, N makes the best games, so if they cooperate with talented 3rd party, their input can only be good.



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