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Forums - General - Conservative Kristallnacht

Miguel_Zorro said:
Kasz216 said:
Miguel_Zorro said:
ManusJustus said:
damkira said:
@mrstickball

I think you missed my point...

'Missed' is an understatement.


LOL.  True, true.  Missed by a country mile, he did.  It's funny though, Sharky almost sounds proud of himself for getting the point of the post, the way he's pointing out the obvious. :)

Anyways, Godwin's law states that if you compare something to the Nazis, the thread is over, and you lose.  It's not often that somebody does it to start off a discussion though.  The language in the OP is clear flame bait.

That's actually not what Godwin's law states, it just states that any arguement on the internet, if given enough time will eventually lead to one side comparing the other to nazis.

It doesn't actually judge validity off it though often times people see the person who pulls out the nazi card first loses because they ran out of arguements.


You're right, the law itself doesn't technically say that, but internet tradition thus.  It's related to the law.  See here:

http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?GodwinsLaw

.. and section 4, here:

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/legends/godwin/

I get your point, though.  In any case, bringing up the Nazis to insult someone is stupid.

Well, unless that person is like... Pol Pot, or Stalin, or Mao... etc.



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People are kind of missing the point of why the OP is so ridiculous.

If the topic was "Death threats against [insert anybody, congressman or not]". NOBODY would be making any bones about their disapproval of it.

But the thread is (quite transparently) an attempt to associate conservative views with violence. It's the epitome of a lazy argument where in order to avoid the need for any substantive debate about the merits of a view the view is dismissed by tying it to extremists that hold the view. The point is to build a narrative.

So yes lots of people in the thread are pointing to others that engage in such behavior..but not in a "Oh /shrug who cares" sort of way. They are pointing this out in a "Yes we all disagree with violence....but tying it conservatives is absurd...and here are examples of why...".

If you want to talk about these threats talk about them in the context of what they are...an extremist doing extreme things. Conservative, Liberal, Libertarian, or whatever their association might be is completely beside the point...all viewpoints have people like this...the only reason to bring it up and link it to a specific point of view is to try build a narrative of association so you don't have to argue the merits...instead you can simply say "well [conservative/liberal/etc..]'s are violent"...and of course who wants to listen to what violent people have to say? especially when it comes to running the country?

Put simply:

Conservatives are no more violent than any other major political group and these actions do not say anything about conservatism. This violence is caused and perpetrated by extremists that do not represent anything beyond an unhinged mental state. The real problem here is violence & extremism, not any particular political view.



To Each Man, Responsibility

It's a good point... one this article raises as well as a few other points.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/35213_Page2.html

Ironically Manus is part of the problem that he's complaining about. Political culture getting worse.



The real danger of playing politics with violence, like this thread is doing, and like republicans and democrats alike all (almost all anyways) do, is that you're empowering the violent to make an impact on the debate.

By creating a situation where citation of violence creates political ammunition to be used against your opponents we're providing additional incentive to those who are disposed to be violent by saying "If you're violent your actions will be noticed and they will have an impact.". It doesn't matter if the impact might hurt their cause, they just want the attention whether it's positive or negative.

The only good that can come of such things is to have a united front of "We don't support violence for any reason.". People need to learn to avoid the temptation of taking the easy way out and blaming violence on those of an opposing view simply because it is useful to your own views to do so.



To Each Man, Responsibility

Godwin's Law.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

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Sqrl said:

Conservatives are no more violent than any other major political group

False.  Its been proven that liberals tend to be less violent and more educated than conservatives, and this is a very easy conclusion to reach.  For the following information, liberals being more intellgient than conservatives is the only thing that is questionable, but articles to the intelligence study have been recently posted on this site so you can read up for yourself.

On average:

Liberals are more educated

Liberals have more wealth

Liberals are more intelligent

On average:

Educated people commit less crime

Wealthy people commit less crime

More intelligent people commit less crime

Thus, conservatives are less violent than liberals.



ManusJustus said:
Sqrl said:

Conservatives are no more violent than any other major political group

False.  Its been proven that liberals tend to be less violent and more educated than conservatives, and this is a very easy conclusion to reach.  For the following information, liberals being more intellgient than conservatives is the only thing that is questionable, but articles to the intelligence study have been recently posted on this site so you can read up for yourself.

On average:

Liberals are more educated

Liberals have more wealth

Liberals are more intelligent

On average:

Educated people commit less crime

Wealthy people commit less crime

More intelligent people commit less crime

Thus, conservatives are less violent than liberals.

I'm guessing you've never taken a class that involved scientific measures.  Otherwise, you'd know why column A and column B don't add up.

You know... just to counter your conclusion... more crime takes place in the cities then the country.  Poor democrats are more likely to live in cities then they are the country.

Which, kinda shows a flaw in your reasoning here.  Although I don't actually believe democrats are predisposed to being more violent then republicans and see it more as an enviromental thing.  Crime rates are higher in republican cities then they are in democratic farm areas that are poor. 

Also you stated the opposite of what you meant to and said conservatives are less violent.



ManusJustus said:
Sqrl said:

Conservatives are no more violent than any other major political group

False.  Its been proven that liberals tend to be less violent and more educated than conservatives, and this is a very easy conclusion to reach.  For the following information, liberals being more intellgient than conservatives is the only thing that is questionable, but articles to the intelligence study have been recently posted on this site so you can read up for yourself.

On average:

Liberals are more educated

Liberals have more wealth

Liberals are more intelligent

On average:

Educated people commit less crime

Wealthy people commit less crime

More intelligent people commit less crime

Thus, conservatives are less violent than liberals.

Wow. Way to cast a swath over a very diverse set of people.

And you wonder why so few take you seriously around here. First you enact Godwin's Law in the thread title and then take an "I'm liberal so I'm smart" approach to the argument. Brilliant.




Or check out my new webcomic: http://selfcentent.com/

Well, you could try to argue against my points, but that would be too difficult. The above stated qualities are fact, and you will find that you are wrong when you try to prove otherwise.

It isnt difficult to find information on the internet about educated people having more wealth on average, liberals having more wealth on average, and people with more wealth being less prone to violent crime.



ManusJustus said:
Sqrl said:

Conservatives are no more violent than any other major political group

False.  Its been proven that liberals tend to be less violent and more educated than conservatives, and this is a very easy conclusion to reach.  For the following information, liberals being more intellgient than conservatives is the only thing that is questionable, but articles to the intelligence study have been recently posted on this site so you can read up for yourself.

On average:

Liberals are more educated

Liberals have more wealth

Liberals are more intelligent

On average:

Educated people commit less crime

Wealthy people commit less crime

More intelligent people commit less crime

Thus, conservatives are less violent than liberals.

I actually don't think I need to make any substantive reply to this.

 

That you actually seem to believe this elitist non-sense speaks volumes more about how warped your worldview is than I ever could.



To Each Man, Responsibility