I am just saying disregarding what I have to say because you don't like it, is foolish. I have a track record that looks fairly good. It should hold some marrit when talking abut this topic.

As I said before: appeals to your own authority are poor persuasive tools. Also, they're inherently fallacious.

I am not saying just trust me. I am saying read the bill, look at my record on this site. Make your own damn choice on the matter, but don't argue a point when you have not read the subject matter we are talking about.

It's like arguing about what two movies were better with someone who has not seen either movies.

Read the bill, and then come back and debate it.

Mafoo, I'm not actually arguing about the bill. All I said was that I won't take your word for it. There's a difference.

And yes, every time you bring up your "track record" you are making an appeal to your own authority, which is fallacious - the truth of this prediction doesn't have any intrinsic ties to the truth of previous predictions re: how screwed are we now.

Khuutra, I have been down this road with you before. You are arguing to argue. I am done. Read the bill, and come back and talk about it. If you want to complain about my communication and debating skills, make a thread about it.

This thread is about the healthcare bill.

As you say: the last word is yours, then.

Just to make a point here.. this is not bad for the healthcare companies. In fact it's great. They are going to make a profit. So before, in my senario, they were only making a profit on 40,000. Now they are making a profit on 100,000. Better for them.

The big winner in all this, is insurance companies. The same people Obama vilified in getting this passed.

I don't believe the bill that went into law today is what I want for my country, but since it's the direction we've chosen I hope that with time we can improve it, fix it, and make it work.  In the meantime, I'm happy for everyone this bill can help.

Sometimes we just need to shut up and dive head first into the chaos that is progress. Sometimes it's not so good, but if we don't take the dive, things can never get better. Next stop, single payer! (Even if it takes another 40 years.)

The abortion language in the related executive order is very unfortunate, but it could have been a lot worse. If the number of women in Congress keeps increasing at the current rate however, that shouldn't be a problem in 20 or 30 years.

That's probably the smartest thing I've heard anyone say about health care in awhile.  Why people seem to think you need to have perfection the first time around is beyond me.  No one teaches a kid how to ride a bike by making him learn the fundamentals of bike riding.  You put the kid on the damn bike and have him start pedaling.  He's going to fall.  He might get hurt.  Hell he may not even figure it out for awhile.  But it's because you are doing something, that eventually this kid is going to know how to ride a bike.  You don't get the ball roling without initiating some force on it.  Objects at rest tend to stay at rest.

I don't know if this health care bill is good nor do I know if it will help ANYONE out.  No one does, and any truth claimers that think they do are simply trying to deceive you.  All I do know, is we need health care reform in my country, and you don't get it by doing nothing nor do you obtain it by aiming for 100% perfection the first time.  You put the kid on the bike and and you let him fall and then slowly work him towards being able to ride it on his own.

Thank you Rubang for saying this because it needed to be said.