Sorry my friend, this does not help any old or poor people.

If your grand mother is poor, she qualifies for medicaid. If she is old, she qualifies for Medicare. If she is not old enough, and not poor enough, then all she won today, was the ability to buy an insurance policy that she can't afford.

What she has won however, is a fine for not having insurance. Good times.

Mafoo I'm going to level with you.

I stopped taking things you say about this bill or related issues at face value months ago.

So did 219 people in washington tonight.

Here is the bill. Read it. It's the most important thing passed in your lifetime. You owe it to yourself, and your grandmother to understand it.

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h4872/show

P.S. I have been arguing about politics on this site for 2 years now. Everything I have predicted about what's been going on has come true (mostly economics). Just because you don't agree with me, does not make me wrong.

Sorry, mon frer, not tonight.

And it's not actually the most important thing passed inn my lifetime, I wouldn't think - that's a bit dramatic. What will be really important is what will come after this.

And appeals to your own authority aren't exactly very strong tools of persuasion, either.

Well, The Big One passed... it's going to be very interesting to see how everything else falls into place going forward, with states deeming the bill "unconstitutional", and Republicans looking to take this matter straight to the Supreme Court.

I have really mixed emotions about all of this... on the one hand, I know we do need reform in the insurance industry, and that we must do more to bring down the cost of healthcare for everyone. I'm lucky enough to still be under my parents' insurance plan, otherwise I'd be uninsured since I'm only working part time right now as my job had to cut back over the past year till we get back on our feet, and that included dropping health insurance coverage....

But not like this... not when the federal government swoops in and can potentially take over 1/6 of the entire US economy in one swift power grab in an attempt to solidify a permanent Democratic majority by making a good chunk of the nation dependent on the government for their healthcare. And I'm REALLY not a fan of the government forcing us to buy insurance, under penalty of fines and/or jail time, and I don't see how this plan is going to make things more affordable for the average American in the long run, because while they may not be paying higher premiums, they'll be paying for it in other areas (read: higher taxes and cost of living).

source?

Listen, I believe him. In the scope of the past two years, all you have to do is say "Things will continue to get worse" and you would be right, and many people were saying that.

I have thousands of posts, so not going to look through them all.

I said that when the stimulas was passed (by Bush), it was a bullshit move that will do nothing.

I said the same thing about the second stimulus.

I said the recession is not over every time the news reported otherwise, and it's not.

I said Obama would win the election when be announced he was going to run.

I said I am moving to New Zealand because the US is fucked.. and well, working on that (I visit there to check it out in 6 weeks)

A lot of people said all of those things, yeah - I myself predicted about Obama.

And statements of intent aren't actually predictions...

We will be paying higher premiums.

Insurance companies can't cap costs, can't deny people with pre existing conditions, and can't charge one person a ton more then another.

I will set up a senario, so you can see what I mean.

Let's say it cost Company X $4000 a year each to insure 10 people. There outgo is estimated at $40,000. Add cost of running the place, and profit, and they might charge all 10 people $4,500.

Now, let's say someone with cancer wants insurance, and it costs $60,000 a year in services. They have to take him, and they can not charge him more then twice what they charge everyone else. So, now the insurance company has 100,000 in outgo. This means for the guy with cancer, they will charge him $17,100, and for the other 10, they will charge $8,800.

So because the insurance companies are about to incur huge expenses that they can not charge back to the consumer who is causing the cost, they must spread that cost to everyone.