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Forums - Sony - Possible for Sony to add Trophy support to PS1 titles?

bobobologna said:
Dgc1808 said:
No... they'd have to be ports. Ripping GoW1 from the GoW collection and burning it to a DVD- it wouldn't run on a modded PS2 like a pirated PS2 game.

Not necessarily.  I don't think it would be too difficult to pull data from save files for trophies, or by monitoring memory usage to determine when trophies should be given.  After all, save game editors and trainers (basically unofficial cheats for PC games) have been doing this for years.  But I'm pretty sure the effort needed to a) come up with trophies for each game and b) implement trophies for each game isn't worth it.

Trophy information is on disc or with the game that you download from PSN. It's installed onto your HDD when you first run the game. By trophy info I mean the image file of the trophies, the text displayed for trophy information, the image file for the game in the menu, etc. PS1 titles weren't designed to check a certain URL for updates like PS3/N titles are.

A PS1 rip can be converted into a PSP Eboot in a few seconds on my crappy PC, so I'm assuming it works in a sort of container like format change [not sure how to say this... sorta like the Video's format is AVI but that's just the name of the container while the video's MPEG-4etc. and the audio's AC3ect.]. Considering playing a downloaded PS1 classic on PS3 runs like a store bought PS1 CD on a PS3 as apposed to TekkenDR:O where it's a complete port and runs like a PS3/N title while store bought Tekken5 for PS2 will run like a PS2 game as in no ingame-xmb or all the other bells in whistles of PS3 games. The system even signs you out of PS2 and disconnects from the internet while playing PS2 games. It's pretty much some weird emulation mode.

Seeing that PS1 classics run like PS1 CD's, I think it's safe to assume that they really ARE just that. That was for the people above that didn't get what I mean.

@bobobologna

Your idea would work. The lack of trophy information, inability for PS1 games to update and the programming to "pull data from save files" or "monitoring memory usage to determine when trophies should be given" is a problem. If the instructions to do that could some how be added to the container, then excellent. Except, we'd have to redownload the re-releases for current PS1 games we already own. If not, these instructions would have to be programmed on to the PS3 firmware since there's no way to add them into the PS1 games themselves. That's were the problem I think lies. PS3 has only 256MB flash memory [where the OS is stored]. It was confirmed a while back that trophy info was around 3MB on average. SONY trying to install the instructions and trophy data for EVERY PS1 game they plan to bring to the store just wouldn't work out.

Hmmm... hope that made sense...  



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zexen_lowe said:

The thing is, you'd have to port the game for that to work. PS1 classics are just the original games, only done for it to work with the PS3 or the PSP, but they're still PS1 games that are being emulated, the actual code of it is still that of a PS1 game using a PS1 architecture.

On the other hand, to add trophies, you have to alter the code itself of the game, because the trophy has to activate somewhere, you gotta put some flags. And how you're gonna tell the PS1 architecture for which the game is done that "after you beat this you get a gold trophy". You'd have to not only add the trophies, but simply redo all the game for it to run not on emulation, but as a true PS3 game. Now, that doesn't mean it wouldn't be worth it for SOME games, but it's not a 5 minute port, more like a full-fledged port of the game, no different than a remake

Damnit this is what I was trying to say... you beat me to it... curse me and my long ass post....



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Dgc1808 said:
bobobologna said:
Dgc1808 said:
No... they'd have to be ports. Ripping GoW1 from the GoW collection and burning it to a DVD- it wouldn't run on a modded PS2 like a pirated PS2 game.

Not necessarily.  I don't think it would be too difficult to pull data from save files for trophies, or by monitoring memory usage to determine when trophies should be given.  After all, save game editors and trainers (basically unofficial cheats for PC games) have been doing this for years.  But I'm pretty sure the effort needed to a) come up with trophies for each game and b) implement trophies for each game isn't worth it.

Trophy information is on disc or with the game that you download from PSN. It's installed onto your HDD when you first run the game. By trophy info I mean the image file of the trophies, the text displayed for trophy information, the image file for the game in the menu, etc. PS1 titles weren't designed to check a certain URL for updates like PS3/N titles are.

A PS1 rip can be converted into a PSP Eboot in a few seconds on my crappy PC, so I'm assuming it works in a sort of container like format change [not sure how to say this... sorta like the Video's format is AVI but that's just the name of the container while the video's MPEG-4etc. and the audio's AC3ect.]. Considering playing a downloaded PS1 classic on PS3 runs like a store bought PS1 CD on a PS3 as apposed to TekkenDR:O where it's a complete port and runs like a PS3/N title while store bought Tekken5 for PS2 will run like a PS2 game as in no ingame-xmb or all the other bells in whistles of PS3 games. The system even signs you out of PS2 and disconnects from the internet while playing PS2 games. It's pretty much some weird emulation mode.

Seeing that PS1 classics run like PS1 CD's, I think it's safe to assume that they really ARE just that. That was for the people above that didn't get what I mean.

@bobobologna

Your idea would work. The lack of trophy information, inability for PS1 games to update and the programming to "pull data from save files" or "monitoring memory usage to determine when trophies should be given" is a problem. If the instructions to do that could some how be added to the container, then excellent. Except, we'd have to redownload the re-releases for current PS1 games we already own. If not, these instructions would have to be programmed on to the PS3 firmware since there's no way to add them into the PS1 games themselves. That's were the problem I think lies. PS3 has only 256MB flash memory [where the OS is stored]. It was confirmed a while back that trophy info was around 3MB on average. SONY trying to install the instructions and trophy data for EVERY PS1 game they plan to bring to the store just wouldn't work out.

Hmmm... hope that made sense...  

Um, you could easily just program the emulator to look at the CD id key (every PS1 disc has a unique key) and download the appropriate data for trophies to the HDD.  Not sure why you think you would need to store it in flash memory.  As for downloaded PS1 games, well it's pretty obvious that the PS3 already knows what game you are playing for those.

I'm also not quite sure why you think the game data and the trophy data needs to be in the same container.  You can use subtitles for a video in a .mkv container, without including the subtitles in that container.

The instructions for how to get trophy data from a PS1 game wouldn't be terribly large either.  A couple of megabytes at most.



bobobologna said:
Dgc1808 said:
bobobologna said:
Dgc1808 said:
No... they'd have to be ports. Ripping GoW1 from the GoW collection and burning it to a DVD- it wouldn't run on a modded PS2 like a pirated PS2 game.

Not necessarily.  I don't think it would be too difficult to pull data from save files for trophies, or by monitoring memory usage to determine when trophies should be given.  After all, save game editors and trainers (basically unofficial cheats for PC games) have been doing this for years.  But I'm pretty sure the effort needed to a) come up with trophies for each game and b) implement trophies for each game isn't worth it.

Trophy information is on disc or with the game that you download from PSN. It's installed onto your HDD when you first run the game. By trophy info I mean the image file of the trophies, the text displayed for trophy information, the image file for the game in the menu, etc. PS1 titles weren't designed to check a certain URL for updates like PS3/N titles are.

A PS1 rip can be converted into a PSP Eboot in a few seconds on my crappy PC, so I'm assuming it works in a sort of container like format change [not sure how to say this... sorta like the Video's format is AVI but that's just the name of the container while the video's MPEG-4etc. and the audio's AC3ect.]. Considering playing a downloaded PS1 classic on PS3 runs like a store bought PS1 CD on a PS3 as apposed to TekkenDR:O where it's a complete port and runs like a PS3/N title while store bought Tekken5 for PS2 will run like a PS2 game as in no ingame-xmb or all the other bells in whistles of PS3 games. The system even signs you out of PS2 and disconnects from the internet while playing PS2 games. It's pretty much some weird emulation mode.

Seeing that PS1 classics run like PS1 CD's, I think it's safe to assume that they really ARE just that. That was for the people above that didn't get what I mean.

@bobobologna

Your idea would work. The lack of trophy information, inability for PS1 games to update and the programming to "pull data from save files" or "monitoring memory usage to determine when trophies should be given" is a problem. If the instructions to do that could some how be added to the container, then excellent. Except, we'd have to redownload the re-releases for current PS1 games we already own. If not, these instructions would have to be programmed on to the PS3 firmware since there's no way to add them into the PS1 games themselves. That's were the problem I think lies. PS3 has only 256MB flash memory [where the OS is stored]. It was confirmed a while back that trophy info was around 3MB on average. SONY trying to install the instructions and trophy data for EVERY PS1 game they plan to bring to the store just wouldn't work out.

Hmmm... hope that made sense...  

Um, you could easily just program the emulator to look at the CD id key (every PS1 disc has a unique key) and download the appropriate data for trophies to the HDD.  Not sure why you think you would need to store it in flash memory.  As for downloaded PS1 games, well it's pretty obvious that the PS3 already knows what game you are playing for those.

I'm also not quite sure why you think the game data and the trophy data needs to be in the same container.  You can use subtitles for a video in a .mkv container, without including the subtitles in that container.

The instructions for how to get trophy data from a PS1 game wouldn't be terribly large either.  A couple of megabytes at most.

.... I hadn't thought of those...
hmmm... PS1 trophies look completely possible now... Still a lot of work for the devs though...



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coolbeans said:
Hmmm.....would be cool to see trophy support for that and achievement support for the Xbox Originals but that'd certainly be interesting obstacle to climb by putting it an update or something like that.

An obstacle worth trying to overcome though in my opinion.

 

There is nothing better to me than taking everything from your past and integrating into your service's future.

 

 

XBox Originals + PS1 Classics with Achievements + Trophies = Auto-Win for everyone.



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It only does PS1 Classic Trophies!
It only does PS2 Classic Trophies!

It only does EVERYTHING!



Euphoria14 said:
twesterm said:

2-3 months probably is a good estimate, it just takes time and money to do all that.  Even if you're only paying 10 people for two months that's still a decent amount of money the publisher will want to make back.  God of War worked because it gave you updated graphics and trophy support (which probably took more than 10 people), two games in one, and a reduced price.  It could work for other games or it could be a giant waste of money.

Well FFIX has yet to release on PSN. Do you see it as possibly worthwhile for S-E to invest in a trophy enabled PS1 Final Fantasy Trilogy package on PSN for around $20-25?

I would guess no but I'm not sort of authority so your guess would be as good as mine.