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Forums - General Discussion - Why do people vote for Hilary and Obama?

z64dan on 21 November 2007
Kytiara said:
ripper said:
Ok canucks, you have just a few more people than the state of Texas, you can't compare our health systems. We have over 10 times the people you do! Also you don't have over 30 million illegals sucking off the system. They get free health care from the emergency room. Universal health care would be taking 1/7th of the national economy and handing it over to the FEDS. When has the federal government ever done a good job of handling money? You know costs would skyrocket. Remember when oregon wanted statewide healthcare and then they scrapped it when they realized it would cost each taxpayer 11k per year? A major problem with healthcare is it really already a HYBRID system half subsidized half private. We pay huge (or if we are lucky our employers) premiums and really don't have CHOICE, there really isn't a free market! How many people price shop doctors or their services?? Only for plastic surgery.. How many of you know how much your doctors charge for services? The FREE MARKET WORKS, but its NOT being used because of the HEALTH INSURANCE companies corrupt practices and there is collusion with the medical profession. I have a friend who has a brother who is a pharm sales rep. They take out doctors for a night out, spend like 3k on dinner and drinks and then the docs prescribe the medicine to us. CORRUPTION!!! and all legal. its bullcrap. IF they make it possible for TRUE competition then we wil see health insurance premiums plummet. as it is now it is a broken system benefitting doctors, health insurance companies etc.

First "Yankee", and this is just because you are one of those americans who seem to think canada is some small hole in the ground, Canada has more than 33 million people, and according the texas census, thats 10 million plus change above.  Not only that, but if you hadn't noticed, most of northern canada is a barren wasteland, so I think we're doing pretty good.

Again, I'm not trying to make it seem like Canada's health care system is perfect, but its definitly preferable to a system where life and death can depend on if you have insurance or not.  How would you feel if you got cancer and didn't have insurance.  Hell, even if you did have insurance.  The doctor says "Well Joe, we have this procedure that might save your life, but it might not.  The bad news is its experimental so your insurance company won't cover it.  The worse news is it'll probably cost you half a million dollars, which I know you don't have.  The worst of the worst is you'll be out of work for 6 months as well in recovery time.  And after all this, you might still only live a few more years...So, want me to get you a pen?"

In Canada, or most other 1st world country, you'd not only get the treatment for free, you'd probably get disability leave to cover missing work and it'd all be taken care of for you.  In the US of A, the mightiest of the mighty...the richest of the rich?  "No insurance?  No money?  Sorry, would you like me to connect you with a good funeral home?"

edit: Fixed a spelling mistake that was making me crazy.


OK here's the difference between the USA and Canada: The USA can do whatever it wants because we have a huge military and like a bajillion missles. Canada has like 3 boats and a guy on a horse.



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mancandy on 21 November 2007

Everyone seems to be an expert in this room. Pretty scared to jump in.

Just to be devil's advocate, I will help ripper out. He's making very good points, but most everyone thinks him to be an idiot.

Why are healthcare cost so high?

The average cost to bring new medine into the market is $800 Million.

http://us.gsk.com/html/healthcare/healthcare-common-questions.html#5

I have heard more recently that is more around $1 Billion. Believe all you want about corrupt pharmacutical companies, they need to charge high for medicine in order to recoup spending and to continue further research.

No one is turned away from the emergency room. There are a lot of people that come in and go out without paying. Who pays? Everyone else that comes through the hospital doors.

I really want people to have healthcare, but I will be damned if the goverment raises my taxes so I can pay for the heathcare of chronic smokers and fatasses that need to take their cholesterol pills with their supersized Coke and fries.





Wii Code 8761-5941-4718-0078 

fkusumot on 21 November 2007
Sqrl said:

PS - I hope to whatever person/idea you hold dear that YOU...yes YOU..the reader can agree that a law should be written about one topic only. If people can't see the benefit in a law being written for the sake of that law only and with all of the focus on that topic then I think the world in general is a lot further down the drain than I had thought. This is such a fundamental concept it frightens me that it needs to be stated....its like breathing...only more obvious (I'm just being facetious now).

 edit: OMG, I just realized what this is....senators have been trolling each other's bills for 80+ years....LMAO


 It's a nice idea but I think it would need a constitutional amendment to become a reality. One of the supposed effects of this would be that the president would get a de facto line-item veto power which congress does not want to give to the executive branch. I don't know how it would work if such a law were written that "a law should be written about one topic only" but in principle I definitely agree with you.



I Blame Wii Fit!

takeru51 on 21 November 2007
mancandy said:
Everyone seems to be an expert in this room. Pretty scared to jump in.

Just to be devil's advocate, I will help ripper out. He's making very good points, but most everyone thinks him to be an idiot.

Why are healthcare cost so high?

The average cost to bring new medine into the market is $800 Million.

http://us.gsk.com/html/healthcare/healthcare-common-questions.html#5

I have heard more recently that is more around $1 Billion. Believe all you want about corrupt pharmacutical companies, they need to charge high for medicine in order to recoup spending and to continue further research.

No one is turned away from the emergency room. There are a lot of people that come in and go out without paying. Who pays? Everyone else that comes through the hospital doors.

I really want people to have healthcare, but I will be damned if the goverment raises my taxes so I can pay for the heathcare of chronic smokers and fatasses that need to take their cholesterol pills with their supersized Coke and fries.




It actually costs more money and is less efficient for us to use the emergency room as our "free health care." It's not just fatasses and chronic smokers that need healthcare. Many homeless people are homeless because they can't afford their medication for mental illnesses. Some of these people may never be able to contribute, even with therapy and pills, but some could become productive members of society. My dad has to pay $700 a month for just one shot of his medication. He is neither a smoker, nor a fatass.

 

Medical research is expensive, but why is medicine so much cheaper in Canada than in the United States? 



allstarr35 on 21 November 2007

Maybe the government could make it a little easier on pharmaceuticals if they diverted all the crazy defense budget and gave some to pharmaceuticals or subsidized medicine. But what am I saying peace is not possible with all this demand for oil and mans fascination with things that go, boom. What would all the old men who hold governmental seats do with out war?




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Fuzzmosis on 21 November 2007

Pharmaceuticals are in the unenviable position of: Stockholders want profits, and cures are not as profitable as treatments, but it is unethical to seek out treatments when efforts can be put towards cures. Denied funding to help someone from greed, or considered evil because of that. Go profit!

Oh, and though it's Illegal to delay emergency room care to check on insurance, (Law made in 1986), they only need to stabilize patients. Also, they don't always do that, seeing as there about a 40,000 fine only if the patient complains or reports it, I.E. doesn't die in private from being dumped. So, I'm not sure what exactly you're basing "no one gets turned away from" Mancandy, aside from hopes and dreams. Also, particularly since the Federal Government is supposed to pay for those cases(As I have heard advertised, so that is hearsay), either everyone pays, or the hospitals are screwing you without ample lube. The cure for hysteria is still around!



See Ya George.

"He did not die - He passed Away"

At least following a comedians own jokes makes his death easier.

Kasz216 on 21 November 2007
takeru51 said:
ripper said:
@knuckles

everything you name (almost) happened 50 years ago or more, way before the dems sold their souls, lost their morals and sold out.

also, the civil rights act was almost stopped by southern DEMOCRATS

you mean the green laws that have pushed gas prices in cali up to 5 bucks? or the ones that created huge gas lines in the 70's jimmy carter that is all i have to say!! 20% home loans anybody?

If the liberal have their way we will all be living in commune style 'dense' housing taking the bus to work and paying 75% in taxes. no thanks

Ha ha ha ha ha ha, here's where you get yourself into trouble.

 

Those Democrats that tried to stop the Civil Rights Act? They became Republicans. It was the Democratic president (LBJ) who pushed it through, not the Republicans. IF LBJ hadn't gone ahead and done what was right, the South would still be Democrat land.

Since LBJ there have been how many Democratic presidents? So I'm sure you see the problem with saying that the Democrats haven't done anything. Your friend Jimmy Carter also set your favored economic policies in action, so maybe you shouldn't criticize him unless you actually know about him. You know not what you speak of, I'm sorry to say it, but it's true.


Yeah... not to mention a lot of the earlier good republican presidents would be democrats now a days.  Like Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt... well Teddy would probably be in the freaking Green Party. 



mancandy on 21 November 2007
takeru51 said:
mancandy said:
Everyone seems to be an expert in this room. Pretty scared to jump in.

Just to be devil's advocate, I will help ripper out. He's making very good points, but most everyone thinks him to be an idiot.

Why are healthcare cost so high?

The average cost to bring new medine into the market is $800 Million.

http://us.gsk.com/html/healthcare/healthcare-common-questions.html#5

I have heard more recently that is more around $1 Billion. Believe all you want about corrupt pharmacutical companies, they need to charge high for medicine in order to recoup spending and to continue further research.

No one is turned away from the emergency room. There are a lot of people that come in and go out without paying. Who pays? Everyone else that comes through the hospital doors.

I really want people to have healthcare, but I will be damned if the goverment raises my taxes so I can pay for the heathcare of chronic smokers and fatasses that need to take their cholesterol pills with their supersized Coke and fries.




It actually costs more money and is less efficient for us to use the emergency room as our "free health care." It's not just fatasses and chronic smokers that need healthcare. Many homeless people are homeless because they can't afford their medication for mental illnesses. Some of these people may never be able to contribute, even with therapy and pills, but some could become productive members of society. My dad has to pay $700 a month for just one shot of his medication. He is neither a smoker, nor a fatass.

 

Medical research is expensive, but why is medicine so much cheaper in Canada than in the United States?

Did you read my post? The emergency room is one of the reasons that healthcare costs are so high.

Smoking and being a fatass are number the one and two highest health risks in the US.

To answer your question, I have no idea.

 



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Kasz216 on 21 November 2007

Also... No communist state has ever survived because No communist state has EVER existed.

A few goverments called themselves Communism... but they never got past the first stage of Communism... the dictatorship phase. Cause once someone has all the power, why would they want to give it up?

I don't think Communism would work, but to say it wouldn't because it never had is like saying a Mr. T wouldn't beat a kid with polio in a fight because it's never happened.



Kasz216 on 21 November 2007
fkusumot said:
ripper said:

I thought all of the government assistance was supposed to help people! seems like one in 10 people are out of work, and they have had several thousand years to get it right


 Nature and evolution have had millions of years to get people right but somehow it went horribly wrong with you.


While that's a good burn, i'd be surprised if he actually believed in evolution.