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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Are devs making graphics way too much of a priority?

Pk9394 on 20 November 2007
ChronotriggerJM said:
Pk9394 said:
just my opinion, developer need to invent new gameplay over graphic. Especially the ones constantly milk on first person shooter, this gener will be in serious trouble because its basically the same game with a different coating of makeup, with the mass flooding of FPS we get every month soon people will realize its the same game kind of game that offer nothing new, and will grow tired of playing it.

 See I'm actually getting tired of people making things "new" and claiming it to be the next revelation. I will buy ton's of RPG's that are "solid" and just stick to a great formula. First person shooters are fine and dandy and still have plenty of useable content that makes them great. I mean honestly look at halo, a very solid formula that happens to be very standard and very basic, but the game is met with huge success and considered to be a very enjoyable game. 


I'm not doubting on current FPS success, right now it is at its peak, but imagine a continue flood of it to few a years down the road???. Gamers will always demand something new and refreshing, I for myself is constantly seeking for something new and refreshing to keep me interested.

I do like some mindless shooting frenzy playing UT and Quake multiplayer online.

I only like JRPG, open ended D&D type never appealing to me.  I got hook on RPG ever since the day of Dragon Warrior on NES but year after year of scrolling throw menus I got bore of it, then came the refreshing gameplay of Panzer Dragoon Saga.  I dont know about others but I actually like FFXII more than FFX or FFIX, its a refreshing gameplay maybe because I was hooked on playing FFXI.  Both share a very similiar gameplay. 



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ChronotriggerJM on 20 November 2007
Biggerboat said:
Bodhesatva said:

I don't think it's the devs, exactly, I think it's the "hardcore" gamers.

"Hardcore" gamers are the loud minority: it's a truth I began to understand from playing MMOs. 80 percent of the people are fine with easier, simpler stuff, but the 20 percent who plays constantly are also the 20 percent who post on forums and make requests constantly, and they demand harder, faster, more competitive content. It takes a particularly savvy company to realize that this loud 20 percent doesn't represent the much more sedate 80 percent.

I honestly believe that "hardcore" gamers may lead themselves to economic ruin if they persist, or if some companies don't wise up and realize that the economic opportunities presented are rapidly being outpaced by production costs. It's not sustainable: there's strong evidence that the number of people interested in "hardcore" games isn't growing very fast, but the cost to make these games has doubled in the last 5 years. Why is this relatively small group being catered to so luxuriously? Because they've been around for a long time, have proven profitable in the past, and are very, very loud.

Again, I only blame the devs in so far as they are unable to see that the people who go on message boards and in forums and write letters requesting high end games with extreme graphics and AI are only a small portion of gamers, and that many if not most are fine with Wii Sports or Guitar Hero.

 


Spot on, couldn't agree more. I do hope though that devs are also listening when Portal gets more forum love than it's undoubtedly more expensive and ,I'd hazard a guess, graphics-focussed Orange Box companions.

I also hope they look at how SMG is being almost universally adored and the fact it probably cost a good deal less than HS & Lair, an absolutely horrifying thought. In fact I think that SMG should be the poster child for the point I'm trying to make, how do you think N split it's budget between visuals and level design, controls, content etc.?


 But most sites agree that Galaxy is also one of the "best looking games on the wii." Plus mario Galaxy takes a tried and true formula and delivers more of the same. Which isn't bad, but if the franchise is popular, the popularity generally follows suit. I'm not saying galaxy is un-original or anything!!! But when I tried the demo it fealt like I was playing mario 64 with gravity and small planets :D. To me the leap between 64 and galax was physic's and graphics. 



From 0 to KICKASS in .stupid seconds.

Biggerboat on 20 November 2007
ChronotriggerJM said:
Biggerboat said:
ChronotriggerJM said:
Well back on topic, when people think gen gaps it's sadly usually pointed at graphics, the "next gen console" always seems to imply which one has the prettiest output. I mean what it the wii had WORSE graphical output then the Gamecube? Still unique in its own right for sure, but I don't think anyone would consider it a next generation nintendo platform. They consider it something in its own class lol.

I agree with what you're saying but I personally think it's a flawed outlook to think next gen = cutting edge visuals and I'd say it has developed due to too many gens failing to deliver anything of significance other than better graphics. I'm pretty sure if asked most gamers would say that the big difference between the SNES/MegaDrive & PS1/N64 gen was graphics when actually it was the jump to 3d.


Oh yeah for sure for sure, but another part of it was also the grahpics, the overall look of the game. I mean when we wen't 3d, we still platformed, role played etc etc etc. Then when dreamcast, ps2, game cube etc etc... it was a big graphical overhaul. Presentation is where the "next gen" lies nowadays, I mean you'd still consider the SNES to be the next gen version of the NES right?


I absolutely do see the SNES as the next gen NES. Graphics are ONE of the things that can define a generational leap but a lot of gamers seem to see them as the ONLY thing that can, imo basing a next gen console primarily on better graphics is pretty boring ie. SNES, GC ,360, PS3 compared to say Wii, PS1 and N64 which were based around far more exciting advancements ie. transition to 3d and new interface.



Hus said:

Grow up and stop trolling.

mesoteto on 20 November 2007

graphics wil be the death of gamming---eventualy you will reach a point where you cant make them look any more life like because they already will be...well life like---after that its about eh content, length, and fun of the game



 

ChronotriggerJM on 20 November 2007
Pk9394 said:
ChronotriggerJM said:
Pk9394 said:
just my opinion, developer need to invent new gameplay over graphic. Especially the ones constantly milk on first person shooter, this gener will be in serious trouble because its basically the same game with a different coating of makeup, with the mass flooding of FPS we get every month soon people will realize its the same game kind of game that offer nothing new, and will grow tired of playing it.

See I'm actually getting tired of people making things "new" and claiming it to be the next revelation. I will buy ton's of RPG's that are "solid" and just stick to a great formula. First person shooters are fine and dandy and still have plenty of useable content that makes them great. I mean honestly look at halo, a very solid formula that happens to be very standard and very basic, but the game is met with huge success and considered to be a very enjoyable game.


I'm not doubting on current FPS success, right now it is at its peak, but imagine a continue flood of it to few a years down the road???. Gamers will always demand something new and refreshing, I for myself is constantly seeking for something new and refreshing to keep me interested.

I do like some mindless shooting frenzy playing UT and Quake multiplayer online.

I only like JRPG, open ended D&D type never appealing to me. I got hook on RPG ever since the day of Dragon Warrior on NES but year after year of scrolling throw menus I got bore of it, then came the refreshing gameplay of Panzer Dragoon Saga. I dont know about others but I actually like FFXII more than FFX or FFIX, its a refreshing gameplay maybe because I was hooked on playing FFXI. Both share a very similiar gameplay.


 Yeah but franchises are generally HUGE sucesses. And franchises aren't generally popular by releaseing a completely different game each time. There are of course exceptions but as a general rule franchises are story driven, and or graphically updated with minor tweaks. 



From 0 to KICKASS in .stupid seconds.

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CDiablo on 20 November 2007

Some people are graphics whores, its a cheap way to grab a part of the market.....just like making a crappy Star Wars game, some SW fanboy will always buy it. This was a problem with most consoles of every generation.



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Biggerboat on 20 November 2007
ChronotriggerJM said:
Biggerboat said:
Bodhesatva said:

I don't think it's the devs, exactly, I think it's the "hardcore" gamers.

"Hardcore" gamers are the loud minority: it's a truth I began to understand from playing MMOs. 80 percent of the people are fine with easier, simpler stuff, but the 20 percent who plays constantly are also the 20 percent who post on forums and make requests constantly, and they demand harder, faster, more competitive content. It takes a particularly savvy company to realize that this loud 20 percent doesn't represent the much more sedate 80 percent.

I honestly believe that "hardcore" gamers may lead themselves to economic ruin if they persist, or if some companies don't wise up and realize that the economic opportunities presented are rapidly being outpaced by production costs. It's not sustainable: there's strong evidence that the number of people interested in "hardcore" games isn't growing very fast, but the cost to make these games has doubled in the last 5 years. Why is this relatively small group being catered to so luxuriously? Because they've been around for a long time, have proven profitable in the past, and are very, very loud.

Again, I only blame the devs in so far as they are unable to see that the people who go on message boards and in forums and write letters requesting high end games with extreme graphics and AI are only a small portion of gamers, and that many if not most are fine with Wii Sports or Guitar Hero.

 


Spot on, couldn't agree more. I do hope though that devs are also listening when Portal gets more forum love than it's undoubtedly more expensive and ,I'd hazard a guess, graphics-focussed Orange Box companions.

I also hope they look at how SMG is being almost universally adored and the fact it probably cost a good deal less than HS & Lair, an absolutely horrifying thought. In fact I think that SMG should be the poster child for the point I'm trying to make, how do you think N split it's budget between visuals and level design, controls, content etc.?


 But most sites agree that Galaxy is also one of the "best looking games on the wii." Plus mario Galaxy takes a tried and true formula and delivers more of the same. Which isn't bad, but if the franchise is popular, the popularity generally follows suit. I'm not saying galaxy is un-original or anything!!! But when I tried the demo it fealt like I was playing mario 64 with gravity and small planets :D. To me the leap between 64 and galax was physic's and graphics. 


That's why I almost see Wii's graphical limitations as an advantage, it isn't going to break the bank to max it out. I don't have a problem with games looking good, I have a problem with them being the main drain on a game's resources.

I also think painting Galaxy as SM64 with gravity and graphics is oversimplifying things. The amount of work put into the game's design including the gravity aspects should not be underestimated, the game does a lot that it's predecessors don't. I do give SM64 credit though for still being a game which stands up today but then it was made with the same philosophy as SMG, gameplay>>>>>graphics.



Hus said:

Grow up and stop trolling.

Sqrl on 20 November 2007

To be honest I am of the opinion that these companies should be either making an engine to license in addition to the game or just buying a license to use an engine in the first place.

The reason so many games cost so damn much is because many studios seems set in their ways of making a new engine every damn time they need to make a new game.

I would much rather see all of the studios contributing to at most 3 or 4 different engines and continually improving them.
To Each Man, Responsibility
Zucas on 20 November 2007

Personally this generation I think devs are missing the point. On PS360 devs are just trying to push hardware and not really caring about innovating or really upping the gameplay at all. I'ts last generation games with next generation graphics. A gimmick that dies early.

While devs on the Wii seem to be forgetting that the wiimote is not an excuse to do nothing else in the game. Devs seem to say hey as long as we use the wiimote we don't need to innovate anywhere else in gameplay or up the graphics cause that's what they really want. Another gimmick that has worn off quickly.

Devs for PS360 need to up the graphics and really start differentiating gameplay wise there games from the 6th generation. Otherwise people will get tired of playing the same thing over and over again. Same with devs for Wii need to look more into using the hardware to the fullest and using the wiimote to the fullest and not just in a gimmicking fashion. We want to see more games like Galaxy and Zack and Wiki which gives 2 good sides of an opposite spectrum.



Biggerboat on 20 November 2007
mesoteto said:
graphics wil be the death of gamming---eventualy you will reach a point where you cant make them look any more life like because they already will be...well life like---after that its about eh content, length, and fun of the game

In which case graphics will be the contrary to the death of gaming. If they reach a level which cannot be improved then as you say devs will be forced to push the boundaries in other & imo more important areas which would for me at least be gaming mecca. I just don't want to wait that long before this attitude is adopted!!!!



Hus said:

Grow up and stop trolling.