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Forums - General - Are people generally good?

 

Are people generally good?

Yes 12 22.22%
 
No 29 53.70%
 
Maybe 8 14.81%
 
Other 5 9.26%
 
Total:54
Gilgamesh on 15 March 2010

Everyone is born good it all just depends on how well there raised and what environment they grow up in that determines there life.



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FootballFan on 15 March 2010
toastboy44562 said:
everyone is bad but religions attempts to keep us under control, o and so does the police

Everyone is good but Religion makes some people BAD and tries to control people's lives. Thats my 2 cents pence



Akvod on 15 March 2010
twesterm said:
  1. People generally act good.
  2. People generally only act good because of consequences (Hell, law, pain, ect)
  3. Therefore, people only act good because they are looking out for themselves
  4. That is selfish
  5. Therefore, people are generally selfish.
  6. selfish is not good
  7. Therefore, people are generally not good.

Why is selfish not good?



twesterm on 15 March 2010
Akvod said:
twesterm said:
  1. People generally act good.
  2. People generally only act good because of consequences (Hell, law, pain, ect)
  3. Therefore, people only act good because they are looking out for themselves
  4. That is selfish
  5. Therefore, people are generally selfish.
  6. selfish is not good
  7. Therefore, people are generally not good.

Why is selfish not good?

Why do you think being selfish is good?



 

Lolcislaw on 15 March 2010
twesterm said:
  1. People generally act good.
  2. People generally only act good because of consequences (Hell, law, pain, ect)
  3. Therefore, people only act good because they are looking out for themselves
  4. That is selfish
  5. Therefore, people are generally selfish.
  6. selfish is not good
  7. Therefore, people are generally not good.

Exactly my thoughts

It's kinda sad but true



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Akvod on 15 March 2010
twesterm said:
Akvod said:
twesterm said:
  1. People generally act good.
  2. People generally only act good because of consequences (Hell, law, pain, ect)
  3. Therefore, people only act good because they are looking out for themselves
  4. That is selfish
  5. Therefore, people are generally selfish.
  6. selfish is not good
  7. Therefore, people are generally not good.

Why is selfish not good?

Why do you think being selfish is good?

I don't think it's good or bad in the sense of morality. It's just different priorities (yourself or others).

Random shit:

  • Editing Works/The Abridged Series - Character development, Cliff Notes style:
    • Fate
      Shirou: I want to save everybody!
      END.
    • UBW
      Shirou: I want to save everybody!
      Archer: That is both a logical contradiction and a denial of the self.
      Shirou: But the ideal encompasses an aesthetic that makes the endless journey worth it. Why can't I selfishly pursue selflessness?
      Archer: FUCK.
      Gilgamesh: MONGRELS! THOSE SWORDS ARE FUCKING PATENTED!
      END.
    • Heaven's Feel
      Shirou: I want to save everybody!
      Archer: That is a logical contradiction and a denial of the self. If you do not realize this, you get no Sakura sex.
      Shirou: You're right. I'm a moral relativist. God is dead.
      Archer: That’s the spirit. Here‘s a present before I go away, don‘t mind it if it starts to kill you.
      Kotomine: But I'm still evil somehow, right?
      Shirou: Right.
      END.


Zucas on 15 March 2010
Kasz216 said:
Zucas said:
mirgro said:
I voted other.

There are good people and there are bad people. There is no way around it. Yes, in a utopian society, maybe, just maybe, everyone will be good. But in a utopian society communism would also work and capitalism would be a horrible thing.

The point I am trying to make is that there are "bad" people. Whether they are affected by something or not does not change reality. You wouldn't have people murdering each other by the thousands and millions, including children, if there wasn't bad. You wouldn't have cheating husbands and wives. You wouldn't have rapists. However this is the real world and treating "bad" people as potentially "good" people is only fooling oneself about reality.

Well in a utopian society, captialism would be unnecessary.  The reason for a lot of things in capitalism, is to account for human nature, or so they think.  In a utopian society, or even the one the communists thought of, there is no such thing as human nature as most of those societies don't think human nature exists.  Everyone is a product of their environment.  If all they know is good, then they will only do good things.  Is actually what Walden II by B.F. Skinner discusses, although it wasn't necessarily to make them good but make a perfect society.  Of course, many don't like the idea of taking "free will" out, but if humans can be so easily manipulated it makes you wonder if free will existed to begin with. 

 

but that's the thing, we don't know if there are "good" people or "bad" people.  Hell we don't even know what "good" and "bad" is.  Especially for those who believe in moral objectivity, especially one that comes from a higher power.  For all those people know, that god could think rape is good.  I know this is a huge nature versus nurture argument, but I just have problems expecting that a little creature like a human born, has anything other than his biological processes.  Everything he knows about the world, has to come from the world.  It's just hard to think, at least for me, that human is encoded with something that makes him more prone to things the society likes or doens't like. 

 

But interesting topic, but rather deep eh.

That's not exactly true... though you are right in that communist utopias the main idea was to "brainwash" people to make sure everyone was treated equally.  The problem being of course, it wouldn't hold if any capialist societies existed... because well... braindrain.

Not all Utopias are in fact Communist Utopias however.  For example Capitalist utopias are utopias where everybody is a good enough person that they will provide for the poor.

You have no government intervention in almost anything, like the later stages of a communist utopia.  However the BIG difference is.... people are still paid based on what they do... meaning to get around the problem of low motivation.  Since in fact there is "extra" wealth then is needed for everybody to live good lives... that "extra" wealth is given around to everybody... and everybody who is below the standard gets taken care of by people who are more generous above the line.  This also fixes the problems of "various levels".

Because if you and I are both given the same amount of money, or same amount of stuff... that by no means will mean we will both be equally as happy.  Which is generally the biggest yet never brought up flaw of communism.  Communism gives you relative physical outcome similarties, but actually may make relative mental outcomes LESS equal.

Well let's not be biased how we characterize it.  A communist utopia wouldn't require brainwashing, because the government (or lack there of) is based around one class that agrees on everything.  Don't argue what it is assumed to be, or what it has been practiced to be, argue what the actual definition is.  Working class takes over, and eventually dissolves the government when everyone only knows how to be a part of the working class.  If all you ever know is how to be in that class, then that is the only way you'll act.  By your stating of it, you could argue the way we currently live now is brainwashing because it is all we have ever known. 

I don't think you could have a capitalis utopia.  Because if it is perfect, what would be the point of money.  The basis of capitalism, is the gain profit.  In a utopian society, that wouldn't be necessary, because everything you gain would be for the society itself, not the individual.  Meaning you would create a business for the sake of the society itself, not yourself.  Of course you could have on that created it for the sake of making money, and then donates a lot to charity, but its doubtful you could call that society a utopia.  Utopias dont' have people that need the charity of others.  The point of a utopia is to eliminate the aspect of human suffering, not pacify it while it exists.  Capitalism can create an ideal society, but not a utopia. 

 

But once again you bring up a flaw that you wouldn't no exists in communism unless it is observed.  Happiness is an emotion, and if we are a product of our environment like communists think, you'll be happy based on what you have learned that makes you happy.  Per se, if playing video games is the subject of happiness to all communists, and everyone has a the same money and stuff (video games) then they will all be equally happy because that is the standard of happiness.  Unless we can show that there is a human nature, then this isn't a flaw of communism, unless we can see it observed as one.



twesterm on 15 March 2010
Akvod said:
twesterm said:
Akvod said:
twesterm said:
  1. People generally act good.
  2. People generally only act good because of consequences (Hell, law, pain, ect)
  3. Therefore, people only act good because they are looking out for themselves
  4. That is selfish
  5. Therefore, people are generally selfish.
  6. selfish is not good
  7. Therefore, people are generally not good.

Why is selfish not good?

Why do you think being selfish is good?

I don't think it's good or bad in the sense of morality. It's just different priorities (yourself or others).

It's just generaly perceived that being selfish is bad.  Since the topic is are people generally good? and not are people good? and doesn't even mention evil, I don't mind working with general.

In general, being selfish is seen as a bad thing.  Since people can either act good or act bad the above statements lead us to believe that both are actually generally being not good.



 

bimmylee on 15 March 2010
RockSmith372 said:

Pretty self explantatory. I personally think that people are generally good. I think culture causes corruption and when people are at the brink of death, desperation always happens, but when people have what they need, they are fairly good.

People are not generally good. They are always naturally inclined to do bad things.

Notice that good values must be taught and instilled in each person from birth. If people were already inclined to do good, then this would not be necessary. Kids who are properly disciplined by their parents grow up to be better behaved, whereas spoiled brats who always get their way and are never told "no" will grow up to be jerks. As far as "having what you need," it doesn't matter at all; the richest people in the world can also be the most evil.

It's not about environment. It's not about culture. It's not about being "nurtured". Its not about personal experience. There will always be exceptions to these lines of logic that will leave you wondering, "why did that person turn out so bad when they had everything going their way?" We're born to be bad. It's in our nature.



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bimmylee on 15 March 2010
FootballFan said:
toastboy44562 said:
everyone is bad but religions attempts to keep us under control, o and so does the police

Everyone is good but Religion makes some people BAD and tries to control people's lives. Thats my 2 cents pence

Interesting. Why do you feel that religion is such a straitjacket?



Check out my band, (the) Fracture Suit!!

http://www.myspace.com/fracturesuit

 

 

 

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