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Forums - General - Why do people in the UK often pretend they're not in Europe?

Final-Fan on 14 March 2010
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Europe is part of the Eurasia tectonic plate. The Middle East and India each have their own tectonic plates. Hence why both are considered sub continents while Europe is nothing more then a pennisula... like florida.

Well, as I understand it it's considered one plate simply because there is no activity to indicate conflict.  "Europe" was actually a separate plate that mashed into what became "Asia" at one point, just like if India ever stops ramming into the Himilayas it'll probably just be part of the same big mass.  (This is where the Ural mountain range came from.)  The Arabian plate may be a different story. 

But also you said geographically, which isn't the same thing as geologically. 

Not true. Plate tectonics are taken into account by geographers as well as geologists.

I presume by the unelaborated remark "not true" you're referring to your second sentence, which means you haven't even addressed my larger point. 

Also, "geography considers plate tectonics" isn't the same as "plate tectonics dictates geography". 

Ok, i'll put it another way. Plate tectonics dictates geography. As for the "larger point" It's irrelevent. If India ever becomes part of the eurasian tectonic plate... it would then lose it's sub continent status.

Are you really telling me that you consider eastern Russia to be actually part of North America? 

I mean, it's part of the same tectonic plate, so in the "plate tectonics geography" sense it certainly is, but I don't think of it that way, I think of it as part of Asia's Far East.  But you think of it as "the Far West"? 



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pizzahut451 on 14 March 2010
Samus Aran said:

Well, not everyone rolled over.

"Car la France n'est pas seule! Elle n'est pas seule! Elle n'est pas seule! Elle a un vaste Empire derrière elle."

To say it with the words of Charles de Gaulle.

NO ONE rolled over (except maybe Holland and Belgium). People from all europend countires (even Germany) fought agianst Nazis.



Kasz216 on 14 March 2010
Lord Flashheart said:
pizzahut451 said:
Lord Flashheart said:
pizzahut451 said:
rpg70 said:
the English are there own people. They alone stood up to Hitler while the whole of europe rolled over like a good dog. Being an American and serving with a few of Englands boys back in 1991 overseas, i can tell you the English are just better people than europeans.

do you really know THAT little about WW2?

Yeah. He should have said Europe rolled over and the rest of the world closed their eyes hoping it would pass them by.

That's not fair. Europe didn't just roll over.

I know it didnt, especially Russians

Yeah. If they had been on our side from the start like promised then it likely wouldn't have happen. At least their turning was the biggest deciding moment. Wish they had done it sooner.


Russia probably could of beat the Nazi's by themselves. Of course Russian owning all the land up to and including france would of made the world a much more bothersome place.

draik on 14 March 2010
pizzahut451 said:
Samus Aran said:

Well, not everyone rolled over.

"Car la France n'est pas seule! Elle n'est pas seule! Elle n'est pas seule! Elle a un vaste Empire derrière elle."

To say it with the words of Charles de Gaulle.

NO ONE rolled over (except maybe Holland and Belgium). People from all europend countires (even Germany) fought agianst Nazis.

Belgium did not roll over, we weren't much of a fight for Germany but we did fight.

 

 



 

Kasz216 on 14 March 2010
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Europe is part of the Eurasia tectonic plate. The Middle East and India each have their own tectonic plates. Hence why both are considered sub continents while Europe is nothing more then a pennisula... like florida.

Well, as I understand it it's considered one plate simply because there is no activity to indicate conflict.  "Europe" was actually a separate plate that mashed into what became "Asia" at one point, just like if India ever stops ramming into the Himilayas it'll probably just be part of the same big mass.  (This is where the Ural mountain range came from.)  The Arabian plate may be a different story. 

But also you said geographically, which isn't the same thing as geologically. 

Not true. Plate tectonics are taken into account by geographers as well as geologists.

I presume by the unelaborated remark "not true" you're referring to your second sentence, which means you haven't even addressed my larger point. 

Also, "geography considers plate tectonics" isn't the same as "plate tectonics dictates geography". 

Ok, i'll put it another way. Plate tectonics dictates geography. As for the "larger point" It's irrelevent. If India ever becomes part of the eurasian tectonic plate... it would then lose it's sub continent status.

Are you really telling me that you consider eastern Russia to be actually part of North America? 

I mean, it's part of the same tectonic plate, so in the "plate tectonics geography" sense it certainly is, but I don't think of it that way, I think of it as part of Asia's Far East.  But you think of it as "the Far West"? 


No, because of the other dictating factor to being a continent. Being connected by a large stretch of land. Plate tectonics are what decide a sub continent vs a pennisula.

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Final-Fan on 14 March 2010
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Lord Flashheart said:

The UN say that "continent" can refer not only to a geographical continent, but it may also be defined on grounds of culture and politics, and Europe's culture and politics is undoubtedly different from Asia.

Or as someone else said "because they made the first textbooks"


I've already rebutted that point twice in the thread as to why Europe ISN'T culturally distinct from asia... to which nobody has offered a proper reply. If you were to divide Asia and Europe into two continents by culture... the Middle East and Indian areas would in fact be part of "Europe". Due to those nations being closer to Europe culturally then asia. When people make the cultural arguement... what they really mean is "White people live here! Non white people live in Asia!" It's an artificat of past racism.

Isn't it true that, although people often think of Asia as "entire Eurasian supercontinent minus Europe", if you actually ask them about it they'll consider India and the Middle East separate entites from "Asia"?  IMO that both supports your point and undercuts your position. 

At the very least wouldn't you agree that when you say "part of Europe" you mean that only if forced to choose between "it's Europe" and "it's Asia"?  BTW I think this whole culture argument is a big mess you might well be underestimating; well, the Middle East is probably closer to Europe, but India ... I dunno, it's pretty different from both IMO. 

I don't see how that actually undercuts my point. Even if they were saw as seperate entities they aren't seen as continents... when their claim is stronger because geographically... at least they are sub continents while Europe is nothing more then a pennisula... even England itself would have more of a claim to continent then England would... due to it not being connected to mainland europe by land. This does bring me around to my central point though that people missed in their rage over geographical and geological fact. Europe as a continent was created out of europeon vanity on sketchy scientific terms... the same is true for the UK not being part of europe. If your going to use subjective measures in place of scientific measures... you can't rightfully say the UK is part of europe since continents then become something simply a matter of opinion... meaningless designations to vaguely define cultural and poltical situations when there already exist better terms for it since terms like this still combine countries like Slovenia with England.

Europe is as much of a subcontinent as either of those (more cuz it's bigger ), it's just that the other two were more recently attached. 

Also technically isn't England connected by land via the Chunnel? 



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Final-Fan on 14 March 2010
Kasz216 said:
Russia probably could of beat the Nazi's by themselves.

Probably not!



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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

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Kasz216 on 14 March 2010
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Lord Flashheart said:

The UN say that "continent" can refer not only to a geographical continent, but it may also be defined on grounds of culture and politics, and Europe's culture and politics is undoubtedly different from Asia.

Or as someone else said "because they made the first textbooks"


I've already rebutted that point twice in the thread as to why Europe ISN'T culturally distinct from asia... to which nobody has offered a proper reply. If you were to divide Asia and Europe into two continents by culture... the Middle East and Indian areas would in fact be part of "Europe". Due to those nations being closer to Europe culturally then asia. When people make the cultural arguement... what they really mean is "White people live here! Non white people live in Asia!" It's an artificat of past racism.

Isn't it true that, although people often think of Asia as "entire Eurasian supercontinent minus Europe", if you actually ask them about it they'll consider India and the Middle East separate entites from "Asia"?  IMO that both supports your point and undercuts your position. 

At the very least wouldn't you agree that when you say "part of Europe" you mean that only if forced to choose between "it's Europe" and "it's Asia"?  BTW I think this whole culture argument is a big mess you might well be underestimating; well, the Middle East is probably closer to Europe, but India ... I dunno, it's pretty different from both IMO. 

I don't see how that actually undercuts my point. Even if they were saw as seperate entities they aren't seen as continents... when their claim is stronger because geographically... at least they are sub continents while Europe is nothing more then a pennisula... even England itself would have more of a claim to continent then England would... due to it not being connected to mainland europe by land. This does bring me around to my central point though that people missed in their rage over geographical and geological fact. Europe as a continent was created out of europeon vanity on sketchy scientific terms... the same is true for the UK not being part of europe. If your going to use subjective measures in place of scientific measures... you can't rightfully say the UK is part of europe since continents then become something simply a matter of opinion... meaningless designations to vaguely define cultural and poltical situations when there already exist better terms for it since terms like this still combine countries like Slovenia with England.

Europe is as much of a subcontinent as either of those (more cuz it's bigger ), it's just that the other two were more recently attached. 

Also technically isn't England connected by land via the Chunnel? 


Size is irrelevent when deterimining a sub continent. You may as well say i'm more a millionaire then Bill Gates because i'm taller. As for the Chunnel... that's underground isn't it? Even if it isn't... it's certaintly no bigger then Panama or the Suez canal areas which aren't big enough geographically or geologically to be considered a continent.

Final-Fan on 14 March 2010
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Ok, i'll put it another way. Plate tectonics dictates geography. As for the "larger point" It's irrelevent. If India ever becomes part of the eurasian tectonic plate... it would then lose it's sub continent status.

Are you really telling me that you consider eastern Russia to be actually part of North America? 

I mean, it's part of the same tectonic plate, so in the "plate tectonics geography" sense it certainly is, but I don't think of it that way, I think of it as part of Asia's Far East.  But you think of it as "the Far West"? 
No, because of the other dictating factor to being a continent. Being connected by a large stretch of land. Plate tectonics are what decide a sub continent vs a pennisula.

So ... wait.  Being an active plate makes the difference between a subcontinent and a mere peninsula, but a small difference in water level can decide what CONTINENT huge areas of land belong to regardless of plate tectonics? 

Fishy, my friend, very fishy. 

This makes me wonder:  In the last Ice Age when the Bering Strait was dry, was Eurasia a subcontinent of North and South America, or the other way around?  (South America is of course a subcontinent of North America, of course, because (A) we're the REAL America and (B) we're on top.)



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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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Final-Fan on 14 March 2010
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
I've already rebutted that point twice in the thread as to why Europe ISN'T culturally distinct from asia... to which nobody has offered a proper reply. If you were to divide Asia and Europe into two continents by culture... the Middle East and Indian areas would in fact be part of "Europe". Due to those nations being closer to Europe culturally then asia. When people make the cultural arguement... what they really mean is "White people live here! Non white people live in Asia!" It's an artificat of past racism.

Isn't it true that, although people often think of Asia as "entire Eurasian supercontinent minus Europe", if you actually ask them about it they'll consider India and the Middle East separate entites from "Asia"?  IMO that both supports your point and undercuts your position. 

At the very least wouldn't you agree that when you say "part of Europe" you mean that only if forced to choose between "it's Europe" and "it's Asia"?  BTW I think this whole culture argument is a big mess you might well be underestimating; well, the Middle East is probably closer to Europe, but India ... I dunno, it's pretty different from both IMO. 

I don't see how that actually undercuts my point. Even if they were saw as seperate entities they aren't seen as continents... when their claim is stronger because geographically... at least they are sub continents while Europe is nothing more then a pennisula... even England itself would have more of a claim to continent then England would... due to it not being connected to mainland europe by land. This does bring me around to my central point though that people missed in their rage over geographical and geological fact. Europe as a continent was created out of europeon vanity on sketchy scientific terms... the same is true for the UK not being part of europe. If your going to use subjective measures in place of scientific measures... you can't rightfully say the UK is part of europe since continents then become something simply a matter of opinion... meaningless designations to vaguely define cultural and poltical situations when there already exist better terms for it since terms like this still combine countries like Slovenia with England.

Europe is as much of a subcontinent as either of those (more cuz it's bigger ), it's just that the other two were more recently attached. 

Also technically isn't England connected by land via the Chunnel? 

Size is irrelevent when deterimining a sub continent. You may as well say i'm more a millionaire then Bill Gates because i'm taller. As for the Chunnel... that's underground isn't it? Even if it isn't... it's certaintly no bigger then Panama or the Suez canal areas which aren't big enough geographically or geologically to be considered a continent.

I thought you just said size doesn't matter, but now I guess the Baja California peninsula isn't a subcontinent either

And I thought the winky face made the joke evident, but that was in fact a joke. 

Finally, it's an interesting question whether underground tunnels "count" geographically as connecting two areas that are separated on the surface.  I am sympathetic to the position you hold that they do not.  But in any case the size of the connection would not matter.  I don't know what you are even referring to here, unless you mean the artificial waterways could be seen as separating the two formerly united landmasses but don't count because of the small width of said passages. 

P.S.  Are you now agreeing that Europe is a subcontinent? 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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