And again... "SONY's first party has been producing pretty impressive games none stop since Fall 07".

They've been making very good use of the Cell for a some time now and each year we're just seeing it improve. Did you expect the visuals we see in GoW3 since 2006 and for games to stay at the visual level for the rest of the Gen? 

Well, I think that the games have been getting more impressive since late 08, but can any of the developers say that they've used more than 70% of the Cell's power before late 08? 

Your right, the 2 console still have things to exploit. Those kind of architecture are great, because in the end, we will have good result as gamer and our purchase can and will last longer. Difficulty is obviously no big deal, current games and past games shows that its been a while already that developers are able to handle those architecture, it will only get better. Im not a profesional, probably Joeorc can give us some insight on that side, but I would be very surprise that Sony doesnt assist developers as some people said. Sony are always talking of partnership and vision, also, end product like heavy rain (independant developer) show that Quantic Dream was able to bring something really nice for their first game on PS3. The argument of no tool/no help seems somewhat awkward to me. What your opinion or fact on that Joe?

you know that the whole "we've just scratched the surface of the cell's power" talk is just propaganda to make it look the PS3 is a machine that is lightyears ahead of it's time.... and yeah I use the pejorative propaganda word cause the PR from both Sony and MS this gen has been so hypocritical that it's making me sick just to read anything from them.

Stop using Alan Wake as technical marvel, IT IS NOT

It is a pretty game with some very nice settings and ligthing but it is not a "jaw dropping" game !

Gears is still the king on 360

PS3 is a complex machine, consoles have a life span of 5-6 years whereas sales are concerned and if it takes years just to get the best out of it when there's a new PC graphics card and processor out every 6-12 months it really isn't a good choice to design such a machine like that. Also the RSX holds back the PS3 quite badly for many developers who have to port from the 360 wheras the 360 Xenos is very capable of handling the few PS3 ports there have been.

People just won't be as wowed by the games released for the current consoles as much as before no matter how much they push the machines. The tech is in computer terms quite aged and the best one can hope for is better textures and more post processing effects with the smooth frame rate but that's about it.

Developers should really concentrate on story, gameplay and artistry.

well as you know development tool's are very expensive, from Hardware to the Software. Hell some of the Software is in the thousand's of $$$$,, yea that $60.00 per game pale's in how much you have to pay upfront or pay when new tool's are made.

Sony does assist developer's the same with Microsoft, there is so much they can do though, spoon feeding is not one of them though../I kid..

but back on topic. what the main thing about this generation that seperates the past generation mostly is how you look at game development on a multi-core design for your software. like for instance both the xbox360 and playstation 3 have multiple Core processor's on board the PCB die. thus each core has the capability to do many thing's in conjunction with the other core's.

where last generation even though the PS2 has multiple core design, it' was no where near this capability, with something like the Cell or the xbox360's 3 core's you can do thing's on just the processor alone that would choke the PS2 and first xbox's processor.

that is not even taking into account what you may want each of those processing Core's to do.

there is just more functionality than what was in the PS2 and First XBOX and game cube era. Like the Wii is not just " 2x Game Cube's stuck together" it's quite a bit more than that, and it's Quite extensive with today's machine's than it was 6-8 year's ago, Like today the Game machine's have the CPU's and GPU's tied very close together, in many way's embedded system's have evolved toward an entire subsystem of computing that was unheard of 10 year's ago, It's just that Many did not see it going toward that type of Computing system enviroment. Quite a number of people in the IT industry question weather Embeded system's needed to be that advanced. Which mainly Question's Why are these system's so advanced over the system's as they were 10 year's ago?. It's not  So much as a want ,as it is a much needed change.

I Think It's mainly on  one level that the Ecology of the Consumer Electronic Embedded system has changed it's Direction in computing. of the big advancement's is the CPU/GPU type of processor that is where combined with seperate GPU's with a very fast connection Bus generates quite a bit of performance for such as a machine as an Embeded Consumer Electronic, that will take some time to tap due to many Developer's that program for Embedded system's has not targeted their software for something as extensive as these game console's.Not everyone right out of the university go right out and start on Embeded system's many GO toward PC development. which is not what Game console's are they are Consumer Electronic Embedded system's. That in many way's now are getting very close to that of PC's in their capabilities.

An Since Not many Developer's  having to Target system's with such fast bus speed's and on the same token somwhat limited Ram.Many DEVELOPER'S were not Embeded computing system type of Developer's. that's why many are still learning today even on the Xbox360 the Game Engine's need tweaking and that's what they are doing on both platform's.

when they say they are just scratching the surface the developer's are NOT and I repeat NOT lieing, they ARE INDEED  are JUST scratching the surface because quite a bit has changed from last generation of the hardware in Embedded system's these Embedded system's are a Beast.

it's a constant learning process that is not going away anytime soon. It's just going to be more thing's for the developer's to learn , new tool's, etc.

I just want to be a complete dick and point out to the OP'er that the correct word to use in the thread title is "they're" not "there".

Otherwise I have nothing in particular to say on this topic.

Carry on.

this is for all games, gears its the same.

since unreal engine was ready by epic before release, that's why they can claim a low time for development, since they dont include engine time, and many of textures are reused, just tweaked.

This is pure flame bait.... Short and simple. almost nothing stated above is even true. uncharted 2 came over 6 months ago, how does that math work out? even then, if this is about developers then they had the ability LONG before the game came out. Producing software under optimal conditions still takes a chunk of time. Considering most games take anywhere between 1-3 years development time i don't really understand the point of this thread other than to cause arguments and stirr up unneeded flaming..  this thread should be deleted or someone needs to do some serious editing...