I think everyone is forgetting about how much of a imapct the vitality sensor will make.

so MS is running on smoke and mirrors, because they haven't shown Natal to the audience yet. Sony is delivering, because they haven't shown anything, but they will do so @E3. But MS will show something @E3 as well...

Actually the only thing Sony showed was a guy that wasn't able to hit a tennis ball with a gigantic stop sign.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th8_zKa0DKk

Wait for E3 so far a lot of people are excited for Natal.

Wyvers: All games I've seen with motion control on every console still suck.

ugh I'm sorry mate but pretty much most of the demos MS did for natal were failures.....heck even the earlier ones were admitted to be pre rendered demos.....Milo says hi

so far if you have followed the general news on Arc and what devs of game comapnys and journalists say about it after seeing it in action, you will see it has a more postive feedback so far...for Natal it is mostly "it WILL be amazing" ...

the fact that their live demo malfunction in the last E3 didn't exactly put up a good impression either

I honestly hope Natal does well....but I personally think Arc will blow it away...we will see who is right by E3 ;)

Heavy Rain and Flower are examples of innovative games? They wouldn't even register on the radar for the Wii. Innovation that works is the name of the game and Nintendo has grossed over $2B on innovative titles for the Wii. Titles like Endless Ocean don't even register on the radar next to games like Wii Sports, Wii Sports resort, Wii Fit and Mario Kart. Thats effective innovation, Sony has never shown effective innovation and being this late to the game all they get are scraps of the market which aren't 100% enthused by the Wii on account of perhaps just graphics.

I love how you exclude all the great titles where the motion control + pointer interface work. Are you afraid of a fair comparison? Also haven't we worked out by now that core gamers 'hate' motion controls. How exactly does Sony get a free pass on this now?

Oh really?

WTH? Heavy Rain is highly innovative, use motion control and is for core gamer. That was actually the point of what I was saying. It doesnt get a free pass, as ill play only the hardcore game like Heavy Rain using motion control. According to Sony they want more game like that, so yes, it should be better for core gamer. Also, check in teh dictionary the definition of innovation, in the games you mention the only innovative one is Wii fit. The others are current type of game patch with motion controls. Hell, mario kart innovative, really?

Actually I agree with Sony, it is important to actually deliver than constantly hype things up, I mean all this hyping, and how much do we really know about Natel come on people.
In my opinion Natel will not bring anything new to the table software wise, this is where it shall fail.
Sony's wand device will be able to do hardcore and casual games, so I truly believe it will be more successful.

So in Heavy Rain you shake it before you put in away, but no more than 3 times or you start playing with yourself? Its Core gameplay isn't reliant on motion and really its effectively a button replacement action, which is something that people have railed on Nintendo for. It doesn't show off motion in a great light and nor is it an innovation as Zeck and Wiki did better a couple of years back. Seen it, done it, already 'innovated'. Flowers control based on motion was already done in Mario Kart so they just copied Wii k?

So like name a sports game which effectively used motion control before Wii Sports and various EA games like Tiger Woods? If you can't then obviously its an innovation.

So like name a racing title which used motion control or even a 'wheel' as a standard interface. I don't particularly recall anything like that. You could say racing wheels with sticks etc but they aren't the standard interface for a racing title its more your regular joe controller.

So like name a light gun shooter which you could control without being dragged through the level by both feet before Wii?

that's how i feel about all of your biased opinions, i hope ps controls prove you wrong.