now that Torne bundle is getting released, I think that there is a real good chance ARC may indeed bundled

Not a hard prediction to make.

One of the products is new, the other already exists in standard definition form and most of it's market has already been bought up by Nintendo.

Apparantly at launch there will be 16 or 17 Natal games, about as many as there were for the Xbox 360 launch. Microsoft looks like they are investing far heavier into Natal and they can spread the cost over several platforms.

I saw a video posted of a TV with an Xbox 360 interface... imagine Xbox 360s bundled with millions of TVs every year?! That'd be pretty sick!

Edit: Sick as in unfair. Though it'd be funny to hear people complaining that the Xbox 360 is only doing well because its being bundled.

i see the arc being bundles, unless sony wants it to be eaten alive, plus the ps3 should be profiting by then, so a bundle with the arc is possible

Sony America's target for Arc is around 4 - 5 million, just thought I'd add that to the debate :P

5:1 sounds about right.

Everything about Sony's PS3 motion controller seems to be half-assed (just like their other attempt with the Sixaxis). So far we've had a seemingly put together the day before E3 presentation, a promised release window that was obviously pulled out of their asses, less third party support than Natal, and virtually no attempt to get the audience that should be caring about this to actually even be aware of it. This is a disaster in the making and I'm calling it just like I called it with the PSP Go.

On the surface Natal seems to be more integrated, like being able to use it to navigate the dashboard, for example. they seem to have hinted at that pretty strongly in the past. Arc seems like an add-on, versus part of the system experience itself. So it makes sense that Natal would A. be bundled and B. sell more units.

I, personally, am looking forward to neither. I hate Wiimotes in almost every game I am forced to use them. Though I do like Sports Resort archery, for whatever reason, even though I am terrible at it. :)

My money's on both of them kind of sucking, especially since MS nerfed the Natal to get it to a reasonable price.

Wow, you're almost as good at predictions as Pachter!

Of course natal will out sell arc, MS is putting everything behind natal, and sony sometimes remember to mention arc when giving interviews. Completely different goals for their respective hardware.

What was the attach ratio and total sales of the Eyetoy/PS2 (might be a fairly good indication of ARC's potential total sales)?

With Natal, I know Microsoft will market the hell out of it, but who will they market to is the big question? I think they will have a real hard time rebranding themselves and selling it to the Wii owners/crowd, which means in the end how well it's implemented in shooters and sports games will determine it's success (based on their current install base and branding).

Is Arc the name of just the Sony remote or the Eye Toy/Remote combo? Because when considering that you only need 1 Natal per system, but some people will want 3-4 Sony Remotes that would really be a big attach rate disparity between the two.