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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Capcom laments DVD capacity - Lost Planet 2 compromised

augustoaag on 18 February 2010
joeorc said:
Feylic said:
starcraft said:
In fact, they don't explicitly say that it involves the Xbox 360. Given the port job Capcom did on Lost Planet for PS3, it is entirely plausible that they had to duplicate too much data for the PS3 given it's Blu-Ray drive's slow read times.

Ultimately though, we know what this is. Hisiru pointed it out. They are just finding ways to make money. If they really made stuff THEN cut it they would offer it as free DLC. But they will actually have set out to have DLC from the beginning.

Certainly by all accounts it is inexpensive to have a game with two discs, Microsoft only charges substantial costs for three or more.

No, thats pretty much BS. Please try again.

yup. it is think about this

the xbox360's drive speed is a 12x CAV

the PS3's BLU-RAY DRIVE is also a 8X DVD CLV drive beside being also a 2x Blu-Ray drive

the xbox360 speed can only get to it's max speed  the very outer edge's of the DVD disc itself upto that point the speed

is no way near 12x it's arround 8x with dip's to 5x than that matter's what type of DVD it's reading a DL or single layer DVD.

while the Blu-ray drive is a constant speed  no matter where on the disc

a 2x Blu-Ray drive transfer's speed as fast as a 8x speed DVD drive

so how is it that the blu-ray drive's are slow reading drives again?


Ps3 = Blue ray 2x             9MB/s

X360 = Dvd 12x                16'2 MB/s

a 2x Blu-Ray drive transfer's speed as fast as a 8x speed DVD drive

no sir.

dvd 8x  10'8MB/s



Maybe it's the fact that Sony was once on top of the mountain in this industry, and the fall from grace has been swift and brutal. The worst thing about being on top is the fall to the bottom, and maybe the transition from PS2 dominance to PS3 heel-dragging has had a damaging effect on the fanboy psyche, leaving them vulnerable and insecure. Maybe fanboys are suffering from a severe case of paranoid delusion, brought about by denial that the PS3 is in third place when once Sony was leading the charge.

-- Jim Sterling

Around the Network
joeorc on 18 February 2010
augustoaag said:
joeorc said:
Feylic said:
starcraft said:
In fact, they don't explicitly say that it involves the Xbox 360. Given the port job Capcom did on Lost Planet for PS3, it is entirely plausible that they had to duplicate too much data for the PS3 given it's Blu-Ray drive's slow read times.

Ultimately though, we know what this is. Hisiru pointed it out. They are just finding ways to make money. If they really made stuff THEN cut it they would offer it as free DLC. But they will actually have set out to have DLC from the beginning.

Certainly by all accounts it is inexpensive to have a game with two discs, Microsoft only charges substantial costs for three or more.

No, thats pretty much BS. Please try again.

yup. it is think about this

the xbox360's drive speed is a 12x CAV

the PS3's BLU-RAY DRIVE is also a 8X DVD CLV drive beside being also a 2x Blu-Ray drive

the xbox360 speed can only get to it's max speed  the very outer edge's of the DVD disc itself upto that point the speed

is no way near 12x it's arround 8x with dip's to 5x than that matter's what type of DVD it's reading a DL or single layer DVD.

while the Blu-ray drive is a constant speed  no matter where on the disc

a 2x Blu-Ray drive transfer's speed as fast as a 8x speed DVD drive

so how is it that the blu-ray drive's are slow reading drives again?


Ps3 = Blue ray 2x             9MB/s

X360 = Dvd 12x                16'2 MB/s

a 2x Blu-Ray drive transfer's speed as fast as a 8x speed DVD drive

no sir.

dvd 8x  10'8MB/s

correction:

you are thinking of it as a CLV which the xbox360's drive speed is not . like i said that the xbox360's transfer speed is  not constant..which in the PS3 it is.

where as the PS3's optical drive is: 9MB/sec CLV

the XBOX360 DRIVE data transfer is not at a constant transfer speed of 16MB/sec

and the average

8X DVD SPEED IF ITS A CAV IS 5.7 Which  IS 7.8 MB/sec and it only reaches that max speed if the disc is completely full, and if its on the outer most part of the disc. and this average reading speed is even slower if reading from DL-dvd's .

if you do not think so

look up the DRIVE SPEED's  this is  in scott mueller's upgrading an repairing pc's page 776-777

17th ed.

scott's textbook Its right on my shelf right now

who is scott mueller?

Scott Mueller

Scott Mueller has sold more than two million copies of his best-seller Upgrading and Repairing PCs since it became an instant classic in 1988. Scott's industry-defining hardware book has been translated into 11 languages and has received accolades from PC technicians, enthusiasts and students worldwide. Scott is president of Mueller Technical Research, an international research and corporate training firm. Since 1982, MTR has specialized in the industry's longest running, most in-depth, accurate and effective corporate PC hardware and technical training seminars, maintaining a client list that includes Fortune 500 companies, the U.S. and foreign governments, major software and hardware corporations, as well as PC enthusiasts and entrepreneurs. His seminars have been presented to thousands of PC support professionals throughout the world. Scott has developed and presented training courses in all areas of PC hardware and software. He is an expert in PC hardware, operating systems, and data-recovery techniques. For more information about a custom PC hardware or data recovery training seminar for your organization, contact Lynn at

Mueller Technical Research
21 Spring Lane
Barrington Hills, IL 60010-9009
(847) 854-6794
(847) 854-6795 Fax
Email: scottmueller@compuserve.com
Web: www.upgradingandrepairingpcs.com

If you have questions about PC hardware, suggestions for the next version of the book, or any comments in general, send them to Scott via email at scottmueller@compuserve.com. When he is not working on PC-related books or teaching seminars, Scott can usually be found in the garage working on performance projects. This year a Harley Road King with a Twin-Cam 95ci Stage III engine continues as the main project (it's amazing how something with only two wheels can consume so much time and money ), along with a modified 5.7L '94 Impala SS and a 5.9L Grand Cherokee (hotrod SUV).

I have been using it for year's

 for example:

so let's take the 12x speed of the xbox360 optical drive

it can transfer 16,6 MB/sec the average speed is 8.5 the average transfer rate is 11.7 MB/sec  the max of 16 MB/sec is only seen on the outer most part of the disc.

and this is a optimistic average speed only if the entire disc is full.

if its not than it would be even slower. why do you think microsoft section's off part of the disc in the first place.



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

starcraft on 18 February 2010
makingmusic476 said:
starcraft said:
In fact, they don't explicitly say that it involves the Xbox 360. Given the port job Capcom did on Lost Planet for PS3, it is entirely plausible that they had to duplicate too much data for the PS3 given it's Blu-Ray drive's slow read times.

Ultimately though, we know what this is. Hisiru pointed it out. They are just finding ways to make money. If they really made stuff THEN cut it they would offer it as free DLC. But they will actually have set out to have DLC from the beginning.

Certainly by all accounts it is inexpensive to have a game with two discs, Microsoft only charges substantial costs for three or more.

I don't see how anybody could possibly keep their face straight and hand steady enough to actually type out something so ridiculous.

Yet you managed pull of such a feat with surprising success.  And that's why we love ya. 

Good ol' starcraft.  :P

It'd been so long since I did any subtle and crafty trolling



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

WilliamWatts on 18 February 2010
joeorc said:

@WilliamWatts

"Precedural synthesis is pretty interesting as a concept. However unfortunately it would probably mean that the stereotypical game took place on the arctic with a lot of snow cover because snow is easy to synthesise along with pine trees because they tend to look quite similar. It would need several orders of magnitude more performance to synthesise an entire game like that however it would be an interesting concept for downloadable games in that they could leverage the performance of the console to download a small game and then synthesise the content over perhaps 6 hours to get to the point where the game can run and then continue to synthesise the content until its all fleshed out. It certainly does put the whole game development/delivery paradigm on its head and only content which cannot easily be synthesised would have to be delivered."

yes it is no doubt.

many developers already use it, an yes like you said many do indeed actually use this technique a lot in sports games for the crowd so its not completely new to mainstream game development.
yea many game's today use this great Asset for game development speedtree is a pretty good tool, but like i said, there are many thing's that outside of procedural generation that right now and most likely for the foreseeable future that cannot be helped because many development studio's do not want their game's that look like many other's to where they loose the unique feel of their game among many other game's out there. where the game's would blend together to close to each other.

Theres also the expense of the tools. It all adds up when you have to pay about 12 different software packages and pay a royalty on top of that for each one used. This is why speedtree is becoming less popular IIRC and not more popular.



joeorc on 18 February 2010
WilliamWatts said:
joeorc said:

@WilliamWatts

"Precedural synthesis is pretty interesting as a concept. However unfortunately it would probably mean that the stereotypical game took place on the arctic with a lot of snow cover because snow is easy to synthesise along with pine trees because they tend to look quite similar. It would need several orders of magnitude more performance to synthesise an entire game like that however it would be an interesting concept for downloadable games in that they could leverage the performance of the console to download a small game and then synthesise the content over perhaps 6 hours to get to the point where the game can run and then continue to synthesise the content until its all fleshed out. It certainly does put the whole game development/delivery paradigm on its head and only content which cannot easily be synthesised would have to be delivered."

yes it is no doubt.

many developers already use it, an yes like you said many do indeed actually use this technique a lot in sports games for the crowd so its not completely new to mainstream game development.
yea many game's today use this great Asset for game development speedtree is a pretty good tool, but like i said, there are many thing's that outside of procedural generation that right now and most likely for the foreseeable future that cannot be helped because many development studio's do not want their game's that look like many other's to where they loose the unique feel of their game among many other game's out there. where the game's would blend together to close to each other.

Theres also the expense of the tools. It all adds up when you have to pay about 12 different software packages and pay a royalty on top of that for each one used. This is why speedtree is becoming less popular IIRC and not more popular.

yup, remember  the origional cost of the "toaster" program...

just plain silly. but it did have some impressive result's

example:

In 1993, NewTek released the Video Toaster Screamer, a parallel extension to the Toaster, with four MIPS R4400 CPUs running at 150 MHz. Based On the Amiga hardware and software/OS. The Screamer accelerated the rendering of animations developed using the Toaster's bundled Lightwave 3-D software.

 



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

Around the Network
WilliamWatts on 18 February 2010
joeorc said:
WilliamWatts said:

Theres also the expense of the tools. It all adds up when you have to pay about 12 different software packages and pay a royalty on top of that for each one used. This is why speedtree is becoming less popular IIRC and not more popular.

yup, remember  the origional cost of the "toaster" program...

just plain silly. but it did have some impressive result's

example:

In 1993, NewTek released the Video Toaster Screamer, a parallel extension to the Toaster, with four MIPS R4400 CPUs running at 150 MHz. Based On the Amiga hardware and software/OS. The Screamer accelerated the rendering of animations developed using the Toaster's bundled Lightwave 3-D software.

 

That sounds funny!



joeorc on 18 February 2010
WilliamWatts said:
joeorc said:
WilliamWatts said:

Theres also the expense of the tools. It all adds up when you have to pay about 12 different software packages and pay a royalty on top of that for each one used. This is why speedtree is becoming less popular IIRC and not more popular.

yup, remember  the origional cost of the "toaster" program...

just plain silly. but it did have some impressive result's

example:

In 1993, NewTek released the Video Toaster Screamer, a parallel extension to the Toaster, with four MIPS R4400 CPUs running at 150 MHz. Based On the Amiga hardware and software/OS. The Screamer accelerated the rendering of animations developed using the Toaster's bundled Lightwave 3-D software.

 

That sounds funny!

You do not even know the half of it. the program when it was first released was $3000,

but when you said that sounds funny

Brad Carvey " brother of SNL's very own Dana Carvey"

Brad's an engineer and he helped develop video toaster

so yea funny was in there somewhere



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

augustoaag on 18 February 2010
joeorc said:
augustoaag said:
joeorc said:
Feylic said:
starcraft said:
In fact, they don't explicitly say that it involves the Xbox 360. Given the port job Capcom did on Lost Planet for PS3, it is entirely plausible that they had to duplicate too much data for the PS3 given it's Blu-Ray drive's slow read times.

Ultimately though, we know what this is. Hisiru pointed it out. They are just finding ways to make money. If they really made stuff THEN cut it they would offer it as free DLC. But they will actually have set out to have DLC from the beginning.

Certainly by all accounts it is inexpensive to have a game with two discs, Microsoft only charges substantial costs for three or more.

No, thats pretty much BS. Please try again.

yup. it is think about this

the xbox360's drive speed is a 12x CAV

the PS3's BLU-RAY DRIVE is also a 8X DVD CLV drive beside being also a 2x Blu-Ray drive

the xbox360 speed can only get to it's max speed  the very outer edge's of the DVD disc itself upto that point the speed

is no way near 12x it's arround 8x with dip's to 5x than that matter's what type of DVD it's reading a DL or single layer DVD.

while the Blu-ray drive is a constant speed  no matter where on the disc

a 2x Blu-Ray drive transfer's speed as fast as a 8x speed DVD drive

so how is it that the blu-ray drive's are slow reading drives again?


Ps3 = Blue ray 2x             9MB/s

X360 = Dvd 12x                16'2 MB/s

a 2x Blu-Ray drive transfer's speed as fast as a 8x speed DVD drive

no sir.

dvd 8x  10'8MB/s

correction:

you are thinking of it as a CLV which the xbox360's drive speed is not . like i said that the xbox360's transfer speed is  not constant..which in the PS3 it is.

where as the PS3's optical drive is: 9MB/sec CLV

the XBOX360 DRIVE data transfer is not at a constant transfer speed of 16MB/sec

and the average

8X DVD SPEED IF ITS A CAV IS 5.7 Which  IS 7.8 MB/sec and it only reaches that max speed if the disc is completely full, and if its on the outer most part of the disc. and this average reading speed is even slower if reading from DL-dvd's .

if you do not think so

look up the DRIVE SPEED's  this is  in scott mueller's upgrading an repairing pc's page 776-777

17th ed.

scott's textbook Its right on my shelf right now

who is scott mueller?

Scott Mueller

Scott Mueller has sold more than two million copies of his best-seller Upgrading and Repairing PCs since it became an instant classic in 1988. Scott's industry-defining hardware book has been translated into 11 languages and has received accolades from PC technicians, enthusiasts and students worldwide. Scott is president of Mueller Technical Research, an international research and corporate training firm. Since 1982, MTR has specialized in the industry's longest running, most in-depth, accurate and effective corporate PC hardware and technical training seminars, maintaining a client list that includes Fortune 500 companies, the U.S. and foreign governments, major software and hardware corporations, as well as PC enthusiasts and entrepreneurs. His seminars have been presented to thousands of PC support professionals throughout the world. Scott has developed and presented training courses in all areas of PC hardware and software. He is an expert in PC hardware, operating systems, and data-recovery techniques. For more information about a custom PC hardware or data recovery training seminar for your organization, contact Lynn at

Mueller Technical Research
21 Spring Lane
Barrington Hills, IL 60010-9009
(847) 854-6794
(847) 854-6795 Fax
Email: scottmueller@compuserve.com
Web: www.upgradingandrepairingpcs.com

If you have questions about PC hardware, suggestions for the next version of the book, or any comments in general, send them to Scott via email at scottmueller@compuserve.com. When he is not working on PC-related books or teaching seminars, Scott can usually be found in the garage working on performance projects. This year a Harley Road King with a Twin-Cam 95ci Stage III engine continues as the main project (it's amazing how something with only two wheels can consume so much time and money ), along with a modified 5.7L '94 Impala SS and a 5.9L Grand Cherokee (hotrod SUV).

I have been using it for year's

 for example:

so let's take the 12x speed of the xbox360 optical drive

it can transfer 16,6 MB/sec the average speed is 8.5 the average transfer rate is 11.7 MB/sec  the max of 16 MB/sec is only seen on the outer most part of the disc.

and this is a optimistic average speed only if the entire disc is full.

if its not than it would be even slower. why do you think microsoft section's off part of the disc in the first place.

 

sorry dude but It can transfer at almost double the speed or just faster than blue ray depending on where the developer places the data in the disc. And you know the most data of the disc is placed in the outer part.


Blu-ray 2x: 72Mbp / 8MBps
12x DVD: 66 - 132Mbps / 8.2 - 16.5MBps



Maybe it's the fact that Sony was once on top of the mountain in this industry, and the fall from grace has been swift and brutal. The worst thing about being on top is the fall to the bottom, and maybe the transition from PS2 dominance to PS3 heel-dragging has had a damaging effect on the fanboy psyche, leaving them vulnerable and insecure. Maybe fanboys are suffering from a severe case of paranoid delusion, brought about by denial that the PS3 is in third place when once Sony was leading the charge.

-- Jim Sterling

joeorc on 18 February 2010
augustoaag said:
joeorc said:
augustoaag said:
joeorc said:
Feylic said:
starcraft said:
In fact, they don't explicitly say that it involves the Xbox 360. Given the port job Capcom did on Lost Planet for PS3, it is entirely plausible that they had to duplicate too much data for the PS3 given it's Blu-Ray drive's slow read times.

Ultimately though, we know what this is. Hisiru pointed it out. They are just finding ways to make money. If they really made stuff THEN cut it they would offer it as free DLC. But they will actually have set out to have DLC from the beginning.

Certainly by all accounts it is inexpensive to have a game with two discs, Microsoft only charges substantial costs for three or more.

No, thats pretty much BS. Please try again.

yup. it is think about this

the xbox360's drive speed is a 12x CAV

the PS3's BLU-RAY DRIVE is also a 8X DVD CLV drive beside being also a 2x Blu-Ray drive

the xbox360 speed can only get to it's max speed  the very outer edge's of the DVD disc itself upto that point the speed

is no way near 12x it's arround 8x with dip's to 5x than that matter's what type of DVD it's reading a DL or single layer DVD.

while the Blu-ray drive is a constant speed  no matter where on the disc

a 2x Blu-Ray drive transfer's speed as fast as a 8x speed DVD drive

so how is it that the blu-ray drive's are slow reading drives again?


Ps3 = Blue ray 2x             9MB/s

X360 = Dvd 12x                16'2 MB/s

a 2x Blu-Ray drive transfer's speed as fast as a 8x speed DVD drive

no sir.

dvd 8x  10'8MB/s

correction:

you are thinking of it as a CLV which the xbox360's drive speed is not . like i said that the xbox360's transfer speed is  not constant..which in the PS3 it is.

where as the PS3's optical drive is: 9MB/sec CLV

the XBOX360 DRIVE data transfer is not at a constant transfer speed of 16MB/sec

and the average

8X DVD SPEED IF ITS A CAV IS 5.7 Which  IS 7.8 MB/sec and it only reaches that max speed if the disc is completely full, and if its on the outer most part of the disc. and this average reading speed is even slower if reading from DL-dvd's .

if you do not think so

look up the DRIVE SPEED's  this is  in scott mueller's upgrading an repairing pc's page 776-777

17th ed.

scott's textbook Its right on my shelf right now

who is scott mueller?

Scott Mueller

Scott Mueller has sold more than two million copies of his best-seller Upgrading and Repairing PCs since it became an instant classic in 1988. Scott's industry-defining hardware book has been translated into 11 languages and has received accolades from PC technicians, enthusiasts and students worldwide. Scott is president of Mueller Technical Research, an international research and corporate training firm. Since 1982, MTR has specialized in the industry's longest running, most in-depth, accurate and effective corporate PC hardware and technical training seminars, maintaining a client list that includes Fortune 500 companies, the U.S. and foreign governments, major software and hardware corporations, as well as PC enthusiasts and entrepreneurs. His seminars have been presented to thousands of PC support professionals throughout the world. Scott has developed and presented training courses in all areas of PC hardware and software. He is an expert in PC hardware, operating systems, and data-recovery techniques. For more information about a custom PC hardware or data recovery training seminar for your organization, contact Lynn at

Mueller Technical Research
21 Spring Lane
Barrington Hills, IL 60010-9009
(847) 854-6794
(847) 854-6795 Fax
Email: scottmueller@compuserve.com
Web: www.upgradingandrepairingpcs.com

If you have questions about PC hardware, suggestions for the next version of the book, or any comments in general, send them to Scott via email at scottmueller@compuserve.com. When he is not working on PC-related books or teaching seminars, Scott can usually be found in the garage working on performance projects. This year a Harley Road King with a Twin-Cam 95ci Stage III engine continues as the main project (it's amazing how something with only two wheels can consume so much time and money ), along with a modified 5.7L '94 Impala SS and a 5.9L Grand Cherokee (hotrod SUV).

I have been using it for year's

 for example:

so let's take the 12x speed of the xbox360 optical drive

it can transfer 16,6 MB/sec the average speed is 8.5 the average transfer rate is 11.7 MB/sec  the max of 16 MB/sec is only seen on the outer most part of the disc.

and this is a optimistic average speed only if the entire disc is full.

if its not than it would be even slower. why do you think microsoft section's off part of the disc in the first place.

 

sorry dude but It can transfer faster or slower depending on where the developer places the data in the disc.

an I JUST POINTED that out did you not read what i just posted?

look the problem is the CAV drive is not a CLV drive which means that 16MB is optimistic value based on many thing's i just stated, and to be sure why do you think Microsoft section's off a part of the Disc!.

that's the point I am driving at the slower transfer speed between the xbox360's DVD drive and the Blu-Ray Drive in the PS3 is moot point. for the simple fact that on Average the Blu-Ray drive in the ps3 will perform just as fast as the xbox360 dvd drive in transfering Data .

only in certain area's will there be a slight speed advantage and that is pretty much slim due to the very fact that the

DVD drive have to read DL-dvd9's which will already slow their performance because if Microsoft did not section off part of that disc it would effect the speed even further.

since the DVD drive in the XBOX360 is a CAV not a CLV drive

why do you think the Blu-Ray drive in the PS3 is so expensive vs' the DVD drive in the xbox360

Blu-Ray is one part the other is the fact its a CLV optical drive. and it's also a 8X CLV DVD optical drive to boot.

Like I stated this is on Average, but the problem is on Average the xbox360's drive will dip in speed based on where their data is and the closer to the inner part of the disc the slower it is, that does not even take into account the laser having to go through multiple layer's. there is alway's going to be a hit in it's performance. to offset this Microsoft section's off part of the disc. but when have you seen the game's microsoft use that use up the full disc?

you do know the 16 MB's benchmark for a CAV dive is calculated for what the DRIVE's performance

is with SINGLE LAYER DVD's

the same drive reading a  DL-DVD's take a big hit in transfer of data

it's transfer rate is much lower than 16 MB/sec just look at it Average speed of 11 MB/sec it's Average speed drop's to 8.5x just on Single layer that's is Optimistic rate that may not even be that high. an rember that's just benchmarked for a single layer.

there is a reason why the xbox360's optical drive is cheaper than a TruX rated drive this is one of them.

to tell you the truth Microsoft would have been better off going with the HD DVD optical drive like the Blu-Ray Drive it was also a CLV optical drive



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

WilliamWatts on 18 February 2010

^^ How would Microsoft have been better off exactly? It would have cost a lot more and they would have lost a lot more money. Not exactly a genuine win/win scenario.