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Forums - Sony Discussion - Yamauchi Hits Out At Gran Turismo Competitors WOW!

Homeroids on 14 February 2010
kowenicki said:
@homeroids

its "thou" not "though".

And you know as well as I do that if anyone from the "other side" had said this about a PS3 exclusive game then there would be a thread full of rage and incredulity at the lack or class being shown

but like I said.. I dont mind it from either side... its all harmless and not to be taken to heart.

Apologies that my proof reading is not up to some other's standards. :)

 

Agreed, it's all harmless. Now a thread that has gone past 9 pages based on what? But hey I can't talk, this is probably my 5th reply to a pointless thread.

 

Truth is, we all love the pointless banter, lol.



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jesus kung fu magic on 14 February 2010

BTW can anyone find the thread where the first arrogant T10 article? I really want to compare it with this one.



N64 is the ONLY console of the fifth generation!!!

Icyedge on 14 February 2010
HappySqurriel said:
Icyedge said:

I would like to know where your getting your numbers, because were talking about what I studied in. In a type of product like video games, salary easily represant more than 1/2th of total exploitation cost. A building for 200 employees, electricity, insurance and 300 computers does not even represent 20 Million (take some time to think about the price of each thing), dont forget that you keep the building and computers to work on many many projects. Were not talking about construction here, where cost of materials easily surpasses cost of your employees. Though, I may be wrong with my evaluation of 50 K average earning since were talking of salaries in Japan, and sincerely I have no clues about the average salaries in Japan. Also do not forget that my evaluation is in line with what PD told the press about the development cost of GT5

 

While it will vary based on company, industry and location, the benefits (health-care, pensions/stock-options, etc.) can be equal to or greater than the employee’s salary; which is one of the reason’s why Auto-Workers have an average salary equivalent of $76 per hour even though few of them would take home (as salary) $40 per hour. There are also training costs, and travel costs, which can add up very quickly being that a single course or business trip can cost thousands of dollars per employee.

Beyond that you have support staff (people like HR, IT, reception, janitorial and security) who are necessary costs involved in doing business, but are rarely counted as a resource.

On top of this you have the fixed costs associated with desks, chairs, file-cabinets, phones, and software licensing which is all dramatically more expensive than people would expect because it is business rather than personal use; a good office char can cost $1000, and a good desk can be $2000, and you can spend $5000 on a 3D software package’s license.

And even office space itself is not that inexpensive being that it is typically leased rather than purchased/built (unless you’re a massive company with a significant cash position), the amount of space required is typically greater than you would initially expect due to shared spaces and walkways (100 to 150 square feet per employee), and most of the places companies want to do business are associated with healthy or hot commercial real estate markets.

 

I would highly question the quality of education you're receiving if they told you that the costs of doing business in any market were remotely close to the sum of your employees’ salary.

 

Im not going to argue very far because of times, I know everything you already said, but physical objects stays as either a re-sell value or can be divided upon multiple projects (like GT5P and GT5). Also its employees that pays for their healthcare and incentive either with a lower salary or as a choice to enlist and substract on payroll. Its also very wrong to compare an Auto-worker with a  company, because the auto-worker doest have the power a company have when it comes to purchase equipment and share equipment with multiple persons. Also an auto-worker will pay a higher percentage of taxes to the government. While its true that your enumeration of things needs to be counted as ressource my point with the other person was that he was counting it for way too much. Also, my point can be easily proven since its in line with PD announcement. Have a good day!



Icyedge on 14 February 2010
jesus kung fu magic said:

BTW can anyone find the thread where the first arrogant T10 article? I really want to compare it with this one.

lol, good idea!



jesus kung fu magic on 14 February 2010
CGI-Quality said:

@ J-Man:

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=75909 (seems this one was the earliest)

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=87520

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=88827

The ones I could locate.

Thanks cgi.



N64 is the ONLY console of the fifth generation!!!

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jesus kung fu magic on 14 February 2010
CGI-Quality said:
jesus kung fu magic said:
CGI-Quality said:

@ J-Man:

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=75909 (seems this one was the earliest)

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=87520

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=88827

The ones I could locate.

Thanks cgi.

Yep. Either way, now we know neither is innocent, Turn 10 has their dirt and now so does Polyphony. It's a shame too, arrogance is mostly what got Sony into the mess they're in now.

No....I already know that ....there both having a pathetic E-penis contest .....but what im trying to find out is the different responses to the articles.

And also PD speaks for PD not sony......sony has learned their lesson and it was a lesson they will never forget.



N64 is the ONLY console of the fifth generation!!!

binary solo on 14 February 2010

Feeling the pressure recent delays have caused him?

I note he didn't answer the question either. "Features" and overall "quality" don't amount to the same thing.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

Dallinor on 14 February 2010
Icyedge said:
HappySqurriel said:
Icyedge said:
HappySqurriel said:
cura said:
HappySqurriel said:

Grand Turismo 3 was my last installment in the Gran Turismo series because I found it to be very pretty but shallow ... I'm not a fan of simulation racing in general because I find this is a common failing of the genre.

With that said, when you're spending (what has been rumoured to be) over 5 years and $100 Million to develop a game and your competition releases 3 $20 Million games in the same time your game better be dramatically better; and sell dramatically better too. If you spend dramatically longer and dramatically more money to achieve an incremental improvement you have really been wasteful.


I presume you have sources to back your statements up? Or are we just suppose to take your word for it?

Last I heard the development team was (roughly) 200 people working for 5 years ... Even if half of the workers were in a sweatshop in China you'rer still dealing with a $50+ Million budget. Regardless, if Rainbird is correct and it is a $60 Million game, if you spend 3 times as much and 3 times as long as your competition to produce a game your game better be dramatically better.

 

 

If the budget allocated for your example would be real a lot of people would go to China to work in a sweatshop...

Working in a sweatshop does not gives an income of 100 K per year.

100 persons * 100 000 per year = 10 M * 5 years = 50 M

 

Now if those 200 working at PD are paid 50 K per year as average, which should be reasonable, you get a budget of 50 M in 5 years in payroll. And then add the other fee like computer, local, electricity which should get you around 60 M.

I agree with your last statement tho, the game better be dramatically better.

An employee's salary represents 1/4 to 1/2 of the cost to employ them, so 200 people at 5 years with average earnings of $50,000 (which is remarkably low for high quality development talent) would be $100 Million to $200 Million in total budget.

I would like to know where your getting your numbers, because were talking about what I studied in. In a type of product like video games, salary easily represant more than 1/2th of total exploitation cost. A building for 200 employees, electricity, insurance and 300 computers does not even represent 20 Million (take some time to think about the price of each thing), dont forget that you keep the building and computers to work on many many projects. Were not talking about construction here, where cost of materials easily surpasses cost of your employees. Though, I may be wrong with my evaluation of 50 K average earning since were talking of salaries in Japan, and sincerely I have no clues about the average salaries in Japan. Also do not forget that my evaluation is in line with what PD told the press about the development cost of GT5

A minor note, but Polyphony Digital's website list their headcount as approx 110. I'm not sure where you're getting 200 from.



 

Feylic on 14 February 2010

At least this wasn't nearly as bad as those Turn 10 comments.



themanwithnoname on 14 February 2010
Feylic said:
At least this wasn't nearly as bad as those Turn 10 comments.


Yeah, because calling Gran Turismo "stale" is totally worse than saying you can't play another racing game outside of Gran Turismo for 5 minutes. Give me a freaking break. Both of them are bad, why can't everyone just man up and admit that Yamauchi isn't perfect anymore?



themanwithnoname's law: As an America's sales or NPD thread grows longer, the probabilty of the comment "America = World" [sarcasticly] being made approaches 1.