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Forums - PC Discussion - Yahoo: 5 reasons you still need a gaming PC disagree.. or agree?

twesterm on 13 February 2010
tarheel91 said:
twesterm said:
tarheel91 said:
twesterm said:
tarheel91 said:
twesterm said:

Reason #5: Cheaper-- They show a picture of Diner Dash, Cubis 2, Solitaire, and other crap games. Those don't really count.

Reason #4 Controls-- Oh, I get it, satire!

Reason #3 Old games -- Oh wait, they're serious now?

Reason #2 Online WoW -- meh

Reason #1-- Satire again!

Yeah, I don't see myself embracing PC gaming any time soon.

You don't honestly think a normal console controller is better for a FPS or RTS do you?

Why yes I do actually (well not for RTS, but I haven't played an RTS in 7 or 8 years so I don't care so much).

In what regard?  I used to be a pure-console gamer myself until maybe 3 years ago.  I find console controllers both more difficult to use/less precise and less enjoyable.  Mouse + keyboard allows for much quicker movements, and the gameplay is changed for the better for me.  I didn't know anyone felt otherwise.  With the Wii, you might be able to make the argument that it's more enjoyable, but that's debatable at best, and there's no denying mouse + keyboard is king when it comes to performance.

Are you trying to tell me my opinion is wrong?

First, let me say no, I was simply asking in what regard you saw them as better.  I feel that mouse + keyboard is both better performance-wise and more enjoyable, so I was asking for you to explain your opinion.

 

Second, why the hell does everyone seem to think an opinion can't be wrong or can't be challenged?  Just because they're your personal thoughts or feelings on a matter doesn't make them automatically unassaillable.  If I said I think a Toyota Camry is a better car to drive around a track than a Ferrari FXX, that being my opinion doesn't change the fact that it's completely wrong.  The only time opinions really become difficult to argue about is when it comes to things completely subjective like enjoyment.  However, your response to controls, "Oh, I get it, satire!" suggests that there is a far more powerful reason why PC controls suck, and I want to know what it is.  Surely you can't completely dismiss a reason because you don't personally enjoy using mouse + keyboard when I'm sure you're aware everyone else feels very differently when it comes to certain genres.

I absolutely agree that there are things that are fact and not opinion, controller vs Mouse+Keyboard isn't one of them.  The thing about facts is that you can absolutely prove them, you cannot prove that mouse and keyboard are better than controllers.  It's absolute opinion.  Nothing else.  I know, I know, PC lovers love to point out shooters and RTS's but what's funny is they always ignore platformers and fighters like they don't exist.

As for my original comment, I was being goofy and bored.  The picture they showed was a monstrosity and as stupid as showing Diner Dash in their previous picture.  I'm sure there are some people that would geek out over that, most would ask what the fuck am I supposed to do with that?



 

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vlad321 on 13 February 2010
twesterm said:
tarheel91 said:
twesterm said:
tarheel91 said:
twesterm said:
tarheel91 said:
twesterm said:

Reason #5: Cheaper-- They show a picture of Diner Dash, Cubis 2, Solitaire, and other crap games. Those don't really count.

Reason #4 Controls-- Oh, I get it, satire!

Reason #3 Old games -- Oh wait, they're serious now?

Reason #2 Online WoW -- meh

Reason #1-- Satire again!

Yeah, I don't see myself embracing PC gaming any time soon.

You don't honestly think a normal console controller is better for a FPS or RTS do you?

Why yes I do actually (well not for RTS, but I haven't played an RTS in 7 or 8 years so I don't care so much).

In what regard?  I used to be a pure-console gamer myself until maybe 3 years ago.  I find console controllers both more difficult to use/less precise and less enjoyable.  Mouse + keyboard allows for much quicker movements, and the gameplay is changed for the better for me.  I didn't know anyone felt otherwise.  With the Wii, you might be able to make the argument that it's more enjoyable, but that's debatable at best, and there's no denying mouse + keyboard is king when it comes to performance.

Are you trying to tell me my opinion is wrong?

First, let me say no, I was simply asking in what regard you saw them as better.  I feel that mouse + keyboard is both better performance-wise and more enjoyable, so I was asking for you to explain your opinion.

 

Second, why the hell does everyone seem to think an opinion can't be wrong or can't be challenged?  Just because they're your personal thoughts or feelings on a matter doesn't make them automatically unassaillable.  If I said I think a Toyota Camry is a better car to drive around a track than a Ferrari FXX, that being my opinion doesn't change the fact that it's completely wrong.  The only time opinions really become difficult to argue about is when it comes to things completely subjective like enjoyment.  However, your response to controls, "Oh, I get it, satire!" suggests that there is a far more powerful reason why PC controls suck, and I want to know what it is.  Surely you can't completely dismiss a reason because you don't personally enjoy using mouse + keyboard when I'm sure you're aware everyone else feels very differently when it comes to certain genres.

I absolutely agree that there are things that are fact and not opinion, controller vs Mouse+Keyboard isn't one of them.  The thing about facts is that you can absolutely prove them, you cannot prove that mouse and keyboard are better than controllers.  It's absolute opinion.  Nothing else.  I know, I know, PC lovers love to point out shooters and RTS's but what's funny is they always ignore platformers and fighters like they don't exist.

As for my original comment, I was being goofy and bored.  The picture they showed was a monstrosity and as stupid as showing Diner Dash in their previous picture.  I'm sure there are some people that would geek out over that, most would ask what the fuck am I supposed to do with that?

Then you msut have really failed your reading classes because they specifically mentioned games with "complex interfaces." Correct me if I'm wrong, but no Fighter or Platform has a "complex interface" thus making your comment utterly useless, ignorant, and just outright pointless.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

tarheel91 on 13 February 2010
twesterm said:
tarheel91 said:
twesterm said:
tarheel91 said:
twesterm said:
tarheel91 said:
twesterm said:

Reason #5: Cheaper-- They show a picture of Diner Dash, Cubis 2, Solitaire, and other crap games. Those don't really count.

Reason #4 Controls-- Oh, I get it, satire!

Reason #3 Old games -- Oh wait, they're serious now?

Reason #2 Online WoW -- meh

Reason #1-- Satire again!

Yeah, I don't see myself embracing PC gaming any time soon.

You don't honestly think a normal console controller is better for a FPS or RTS do you?

Why yes I do actually (well not for RTS, but I haven't played an RTS in 7 or 8 years so I don't care so much).

In what regard?  I used to be a pure-console gamer myself until maybe 3 years ago.  I find console controllers both more difficult to use/less precise and less enjoyable.  Mouse + keyboard allows for much quicker movements, and the gameplay is changed for the better for me.  I didn't know anyone felt otherwise.  With the Wii, you might be able to make the argument that it's more enjoyable, but that's debatable at best, and there's no denying mouse + keyboard is king when it comes to performance.

Are you trying to tell me my opinion is wrong?

First, let me say no, I was simply asking in what regard you saw them as better.  I feel that mouse + keyboard is both better performance-wise and more enjoyable, so I was asking for you to explain your opinion.

 

Second, why the hell does everyone seem to think an opinion can't be wrong or can't be challenged?  Just because they're your personal thoughts or feelings on a matter doesn't make them automatically unassaillable.  If I said I think a Toyota Camry is a better car to drive around a track than a Ferrari FXX, that being my opinion doesn't change the fact that it's completely wrong.  The only time opinions really become difficult to argue about is when it comes to things completely subjective like enjoyment.  However, your response to controls, "Oh, I get it, satire!" suggests that there is a far more powerful reason why PC controls suck, and I want to know what it is.  Surely you can't completely dismiss a reason because you don't personally enjoy using mouse + keyboard when I'm sure you're aware everyone else feels very differently when it comes to certain genres.

I absolutely agree that there are things that are fact and not opinion, controller vs Mouse+Keyboard isn't one of them.  The thing about facts is that you can absolutely prove them, you cannot prove that mouse and keyboard are better than controllers.  It's absolute opinion.  Nothing else.  I know, I know, PC lovers love to point out shooters and RTS's but what's funny is they always ignore platformers and fighters like they don't exist.

As for my original comment, I was being goofy and bored.  The picture they showed was a monstrosity and as stupid as showing Diner Dash in their previous picture.

Ok, I think I misunderstood you a bit, then.  However, I think in many senses controller vs. mouse+keypad isn't entirely subjective.  There's no denying that performance wise mouse + keyboard is supreme(i.e. if two players of equal skill player each using different controls, the one with mouse+keyboard would win) when it comes to certain genres like FPS and RTS.  While that is certainly not true for all or even most genres, that isn't the point.  The article's argument was why you still need a gaming PC, not why a PC is better for gaming.  I see the mouse+keyboard's superior performance in certain genres as a very solid arguement for why it remains necessary.  Interaction in a FPS or RTS should be based on the player's limitations (e.g. reflexes, thinking, etc.) not slow or inadequate controls.



Pyramid Head on 13 February 2010

dear mouse and keyboard lovers

try the wiimote

exact same thing, but you actually point at what you shoot and avoid carpal tunnel syndrome

rts as well on WII is perfect, also on ds

but yeh m and k beats controller for fps and rts



Last year's game of the year turned out to be Silent Hill : Shattered Memories (online GOTY was COD 6).  This year's GOTY leader to me is Heavy Rain.

Wii Friend Code: 4094-4604-1880-6889

vlad321 on 13 February 2010
Pyramid Head said:
dear mouse and keyboard lovers

try the wiimote

exact same thing, but you actually point at what you shoot and avoid carpal tunnel syndrome

rts as well on WII is perfect, also on ds

but yeh m and k beats controller for fps and rts

I have a wiimote. It fails at anything that has more than 3 guns. Don't even start me on the RTS part.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

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Pyramid Head on 13 February 2010

@vlad

ok what ? 3 guns what are you talking about ? Come play cod mwr with me and as i kill you over and over, notice how responsive the wiimote aiming is

also why not get you started on the rts part?

how is it different playing rts on ds vs pc aside from resolution issues, it may not be as percise, but it works.



Last year's game of the year turned out to be Silent Hill : Shattered Memories (online GOTY was COD 6).  This year's GOTY leader to me is Heavy Rain.

Wii Friend Code: 4094-4604-1880-6889

Kenryoku_Maxis on 13 February 2010

I'll give you one reason why you need a gaming PC: Because there's good games on PC that aren't on a console or handheld.

And that should be the same reason you buy a console or handheld.

Look at my signature for 2 such upcoming PC games.



Six upcoming games you should look into:

 

  

vlad321 on 13 February 2010
Pyramid Head said:
@vlad

ok what ? 3 guns what are you talking about ? Come play cod mwr with me and as i kill you over and over, notice how responsive the wiimote aiming is

also why not get you started on the rts part?

how is it different playing rts on ds vs pc aside from resolution issues, it may not be as percise, but it works.

Ever hear of the concept of hotkeys?



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

twesterm on 13 February 2010
vlad321 said:
twesterm said:
 

I absolutely agree that there are things that are fact and not opinion, controller vs Mouse+Keyboard isn't one of them.  The thing about facts is that you can absolutely prove them, you cannot prove that mouse and keyboard are better than controllers.  It's absolute opinion.  Nothing else.  I know, I know, PC lovers love to point out shooters and RTS's but what's funny is they always ignore platformers and fighters like they don't exist.

As for my original comment, I was being goofy and bored.  The picture they showed was a monstrosity and as stupid as showing Diner Dash in their previous picture.  I'm sure there are some people that would geek out over that, most would ask what the fuck am I supposed to do with that?

Then you msut have really failed your reading classes because they specifically mentioned games with "complex interfaces." Correct me if I'm wrong, but no Fighter or Platform has a "complex interface" thus making your comment utterly useless, ignorant, and just outright pointless.

Again, fuck people, learn that people have different opinions than you.

I don't like mouse and keyboard, I'm better with a controller at all gametypes except sims and RTS's, and that's that.  Yes, even complex shooters I'm better with a controller.

Games that I have played on PC and console and I liked controller better:

  • Gears of War
  • Halo
  • Left4Dead
  • Left4Dead 2
  • Half-Life 2
  • TF2
  • Portal
  • F.E.A.R.

Games that I've played with mouse and keyboard and controller that I liked it better with mouse and keyboard:

  • none

If you look at those, most of them have "complex" interfaces that I simply like using a controller better.  I don't get why people have such a hard time accepting that.

Furthermore, just because something is more complex does not make it better.

Would it really destroy your world so much to accept that some people don't like mouse and keyboard better than controllers?  How is that so hard to accept?  Are you really that ignorant that you think your opinion is the only one?



 

vlad321 on 13 February 2010
twesterm said:
vlad321 said:
twesterm said:
 

I absolutely agree that there are things that are fact and not opinion, controller vs Mouse+Keyboard isn't one of them.  The thing about facts is that you can absolutely prove them, you cannot prove that mouse and keyboard are better than controllers.  It's absolute opinion.  Nothing else.  I know, I know, PC lovers love to point out shooters and RTS's but what's funny is they always ignore platformers and fighters like they don't exist.

As for my original comment, I was being goofy and bored.  The picture they showed was a monstrosity and as stupid as showing Diner Dash in their previous picture.  I'm sure there are some people that would geek out over that, most would ask what the fuck am I supposed to do with that?

Then you msut have really failed your reading classes because they specifically mentioned games with "complex interfaces." Correct me if I'm wrong, but no Fighter or Platform has a "complex interface" thus making your comment utterly useless, ignorant, and just outright pointless.

Again, fuck people, learn that people have different opinions than you.

I don't like mouse and keyboard, I'm better with a controller at all gametypes except sims and RTS's, and that's that.  Yes, even complex shooters I'm better with a controller.

Games that I have played on PC and console and I liked controller better:

  • Gears of War
  • Halo
  • Left4Dead
  • Left4Dead 2
  • Half-Life 2
  • TF2
  • Portal
  • F.E.A.R.

Games that I've played with mouse and keyboard and controller that I liked it better with mouse and keyboard:

  • none

If you look at those, most of them have "complex" interfaces that I simply like using a controller better.  I don't get why people have such a hard time accepting that.

Furthermore, just because something is more complex does not make it better.

And when will people try to pass facts off as opinions?

Tarheel made an amazing analogy. Sure you may be able to do some amazing stuff with a Crovette, but a Ferrarri will do everything it does a lot better. Just because YOU can't do it doesn't mean the problem is with the Ferrari, it's wioth the user. So please stop passing off facts as opinions.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835