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Forums - PC Discussion - Getting a gaming rig. Buy or Build?

largedarryl on 09 February 2010
Garcian Smith said:
largedarryl said:

What's wrong with the case, one of the best cases I've ever purchased.  4 system fans and easy access to the HDD bays.

Do you have something against Antec?  They make good products, but I do agree there are better PSU manufacturers and I was attempting to grab a cheaper one for this price breakdown.

Find me a game that this CPU will not work with?  If this guy is buying a gaming rig, why would he spend the money on a more expensive processor when all current games are offloading workload to the GPU.

Seagate, again whats wrong with them, from my standpoint the were still offering 5 year warranties on their HDD's last year (vs 3 year from every other HDD manufacturer)

Okay, I was being a bit harsh on the case. I just can't stand a case manufacturer that crams bright blue LEDs everywhere - it basically means that whatever room you stick it in will glow blue 24/7. That's fine if that doesn't bother you, but for that price you could have something sleek, classy, and LED-free like the Lian Li Lancool PC-K7B.

Antec's PSUs aren't bad, per se, but for that price you could've had one from a top-of-the-line manufacturer like the Corsair 550VX.

Again, there's nothing wrong with the X4 620, but it's outperformed on most games by the cheaper X3 435/440. The lower clockspeed of the cores really hurts it in games that only take advantage of one or two cores.

Finally, larger Seagate drives are known to have reliability problems ever since they bought Maxtor. (Don't worry - I didn't even know this myself until recently.) I'm guessing that the one you got is this one, which should work decently but only has a 3 year warranty. Western Digital offers an extra two years for just a five-spot more.

Well at least this response is less harsh.  I don't like LEDs either, but it seems to be the trend and I'll go with a less obtrusive case whenever I get the chance (black with blue LEDs is better than most good cases).

In terms of CPU, I didn't look very hard, I just grabbed one that was available at one of the Canadian distributors (trying to cater to the OP).  Yes the X3 would be better, but the truth is that most games now do not require a very power CPU to run, so going for an AMD is better choice for a gaming rig, IMO.  The i5/7/9 series blows AMD out of the water, but the in-game performance boost is minor compared to spending more on the GPU.

When did Seagate by Maxtor?  I make sure I always by the Seagate Barracuda drives (my home PC has a 200GB and a 300GB at home).



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Squilliam on 09 February 2010
Garcian Smith said:
Squilliam said:

So you tell me?

 

Again, I'm not doubting that the 5850 is a more powerful card, but at $300+ it's also leaning heavily toward the expensive side of the market. I can't argue with those benchmarks, obviously, but you've also cherry-picked two of the most GPU-intensive games on the market (plus a beta running at 8x AA, which taxes any sub-$300 card). For most anything else, the 4890 will run it at max settings, and should be able to for the foreseeable future. That's perfectly fine if the OP wants to pay an extra $100 to push graphics to the max on every game, but I'm working on the assumption that most people here would rather save a substantial amount of cash than occasionally turn down a couple of "Very High" settings to merely, "High."

At $1200 the computer in question is leaning heavily towards the expensive side of the market.

Sum of FPS Benchmarks 1680x1050
with anti aliasing, 4AA
(High Quality)
Score in FrameGo		 584.60 459.50 407.80

HD 5850 vs 4890 which is an aggregate increase of 27%.

Vs a 41% difference in price. The remaining 14% price vs performance is justified from the power, noise and features.

One can expect this gap to narrow with driver updates and later games which are more GPU limited and less CPU limited.

Sum of FPS Benchmarks 1680x1050
with anti aliasing, 4AA
(High Quality)
Score in FrameGo		 584.60 459.50 407.80


Tease.

superchunk on 09 February 2010
Phrancheyez said:
Don't build.. 'It's so much cheaper! You can have a better computer!!' bullshit..and it'll take you forever, and cost you a lot of time and work, and things will go wrong.

www.digitalstormonline.com

Probably one of the best sites to get it from, their prices aren't that bad at all, and they've got options out the ass. Even their lowest-end performance PC is badass. They set up, overclock, and stress test your machine for 3 straight days before sending it to you. Much less of a headache..

But building it will be a little cheaper.

I like how your 1st line and last line are contradictory. :)

 

Building is always cheaper for higher quality parts. So yes, you will save money and you will have a better computer.

I have a PC I built for ~$800 in 2002. I have spent ~$150 in those 8 years to buy more memory and a better graphics card. So, in total it was a ~$1000 computer that is still running in perfect condition and is on Windows 7 with great performance.

In 2002 it ran any game I wanted at reasonably high levels and performed all of my coding homework perfectly.

In 2008 I build another PC (spec'd in my profile). I spent ~$900 and it too can play any current game at reasonably high levels; many times maxed out. (I have spent an additional ~$150 on Win7 64bit and 2GB memory).

In both cases when I compared similar PCs to one from Dell, HP, etc., they were all a couple hundred dollars more, had questionable parts, and would come with a ton of crap-ware.



Epoch on 09 February 2010
Squilliam said:
http://www.guru3d.com/article/vga-charts-december-2009/2

I would suggest you take a good look, especially taking note of the relative positions of the 5850 and 4890 in games where the graphs are steep as this indicates the game has a graphics bottleneck.

Also two things to take note of:

1. HD 5xxx series are DX11 which means more efficiency, better image quality etc.
2. HD 5xxx series support Eyefinity (you can use up to 6 monitors as if they are one panel) and display port for future connectivity.

Yea I keep going back to that and looking at the differences.  It is awfully tempting to just pay out the extra $100 for the card, but I'm trying to keep it under $1500 with taxes and shipping. The current list totals $1450, taxes and shipping inclusive. 

However, some components appear cheaper on this the Canada Computers site.  Can someone tell me the difference between these three cards?

MSI (R5850-PM2D1G-OC) ATI Radeon HD 5850 Chipset (765Mhz) 1GB GDDR5

HIS (H585F1GDG) ATI Radeon HD 5850 1GB GDDR5

Asus EAH5850/2DIS/1GD5/A ATI Radeon HD 5850 Chipset (725MHz )

 

Other than the manufacturer, obviously.

Some of the other components are cheaper as well, but not the CPU =(.  Might have to buy from 2 different sites to save a bit



Epoch on 09 February 2010
Garcian Smith said:
Squilliam said:
http://www.guru3d.com/article/vga-charts-december-2009/2

I would suggest you take a good look, especially taking note of the relative positions of the 5850 and 4890 in games where the graphs are steep as this indicates the game has a graphics bottleneck.

Also two things to take note of:

1. HD 5xxx series are DX11 which means more efficiency, better image quality etc.
2. HD 5xxx series support Eyefinity (you can use up to 6 monitors as if they are one panel) and display port for future connectivity.

That all depends upon what resolution the OP is running. For 1920x1080 or lower, the 4890 should be all he needs. 1920x1200 is a little more shaky, though.

And don't worry about DX11 now - at least, not when the only games that take advantage of the hardware only do so for minor things like tessellated flags. And-and, don't buy a DX11 card for Eyefinity or DisplayPort if you don't plan on using either.

Most people over-buy in the graphics card department initially and then get upset when their top-of-the-line hardware is outperformed by a $150 card two years down the road. Don't be one of those people.

Otherwise, OP: I'd reconsider the case (unless you want whatever room you're putting your PC in to glow blue), but the rest of the build looks fine. I would, however, check the RAM that you picked out against Gigabyte's compatibility list just to make sure, since the GA-P55 mobos are notoriously picky when it comes to RAM.

Thanks for the tip on the Mobo/RAM.  I kinda picked that case at random, cuz the Canadian Newegg doesn't have the LianLi one in it.  I just selected "Aluminum" from the materials list and only 7 showed up.  That one seemed the best deal.  Canada Computers might have it tho, just looking through their stuff now

EDIT: found the case on Newegg.ca for $80.00!! Dunno why it didn't show up the first time. Good deal though!



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Squilliam on 09 February 2010
Epoch said:

Yea I keep going back to that and looking at the differences.  It is awfully tempting to just pay out the extra $100 for the card, but I'm trying to keep it under $1500 with taxes and shipping. The current list totals $1450, taxes and shipping inclusive. 

However, some components appear cheaper on this the Canada Computers site.  Can someone tell me the difference between these three cards?

MSI (R5850-PM2D1G-OC) ATI Radeon HD 5850 Chipset (765Mhz) 1GB GDDR5

HIS (H585F1GDG) ATI Radeon HD 5850 1GB GDDR5

Asus EAH5850/2DIS/1GD5/A ATI Radeon HD 5850 Chipset (725MHz )

 

Other than the manufacturer, obviously.

Some of the other components are cheaper as well, but not the CPU =(.  Might have to buy from 2 different sites to save a bit

Actually Saphire makes almost all Radeon cards. The difference is that one has a factory overclock and whatever differences there are in support, warranty and box contents (aside from the card).

I didn't see any availability for the HD 4890 at that site. The card has been discontinued so its not surprising.

 



Tease.

jkimball on 09 February 2010
superchunk said:
Phrancheyez said:
Don't build.. 'It's so much cheaper! You can have a better computer!!' bullshit..and it'll take you forever, and cost you a lot of time and work, and things will go wrong.

www.digitalstormonline.com

Probably one of the best sites to get it from, their prices aren't that bad at all, and they've got options out the ass. Even their lowest-end performance PC is badass. They set up, overclock, and stress test your machine for 3 straight days before sending it to you. Much less of a headache..

But building it will be a little cheaper.

I like how your 1st line and last line are contradictory. :)

 

Building is always cheaper for higher quality parts. So yes, you will save money and you will have a better computer.

I have a PC I built for ~$800 in 2002. I have spent ~$150 in those 8 years to buy more memory and a better graphics card. So, in total it was a ~$1000 computer that is still running in perfect condition and is on Windows 7 with great performance.

In 2002 it ran any game I wanted at reasonably high levels and performed all of my coding homework perfectly.

In 2008 I build another PC (spec'd in my profile). I spent ~$900 and it too can play any current game at reasonably high levels; many times maxed out. (I have spent an additional ~$150 on Win7 64bit and 2GB memory).

In both cases when I compared similar PCs to one from Dell, HP, etc., they were all a couple hundred dollars more, had questionable parts, and would come with a ton of crap-ware.

Whoa, there. There is a HUGE market between "Dell/HP" and "home built"!  The OP posted two links to iBuypower PC wesbsite. Thery are a large white box assembler with a good reputation. So far, none of the 'home built' solutions presented on this thread  have been able to beat their price!  Personally I build all my PC's, but I have the keyboards,  mice, monitors, DVD burners, cases, memeory card readers etc already.  The OP has NOTHING. So he needs everything from scratch. In 2008 you could have bought a $925 PC from a reputable white box seller and gotten very, very close to what you built yourself.

Claims of 'you'll save hundreds' are quite exaggerated. Compared to a Dell? yes, you'll save hundreds and get much nicer case/PSU. But compared to a whitebox reseller? Not so much. The OP is looking at savings of about zero. It's a satsifaction thing at this point.

to Epoch: Your build looks good. Dont' forget keyboard and mouse. I would go with the AMD PII X4 and save over the intel, thus freeing up enough for the 58xx video.  



Trying to convince me the Wii is a real adult game machine 'if you play it right' is like trying to convince me Tofu tastes great 'if you just cook it right'

Epoch on 09 February 2010
Squilliam said:
Epoch said:

Yea I keep going back to that and looking at the differences.  It is awfully tempting to just pay out the extra $100 for the card, but I'm trying to keep it under $1500 with taxes and shipping. The current list totals $1450, taxes and shipping inclusive. 

However, some components appear cheaper on this the Canada Computers site.  Can someone tell me the difference between these three cards?

MSI (R5850-PM2D1G-OC) ATI Radeon HD 5850 Chipset (765Mhz) 1GB GDDR5

HIS (H585F1GDG) ATI Radeon HD 5850 1GB GDDR5

Asus EAH5850/2DIS/1GD5/A ATI Radeon HD 5850 Chipset (725MHz )

 

Other than the manufacturer, obviously.

Some of the other components are cheaper as well, but not the CPU =(.  Might have to buy from 2 different sites to save a bit

Actually Saphire makes almost all Radeon cards. The difference is that one has a factory overclock and whatever differences there are in support, warranty and box contents (aside from the card).

I didn't see any availability for the HD 4890 at that site. The card has been discontinued so its not surprising.

 

Ah, so the chipsets are basically the same, just some overclock them before you buy them? Then why is XFX 5850 $70 more than some of its competitors? Better warranty and packaging? Seems a bit funny, but Branding is powerful.

 

Jkimball, I have come to the conclusion that it probably wont be a whole lot cheaper than what I could buy in store, but the components will be better than the ones they use in a lot of the models I have looked at. Hopefully this leads to a longer lifespan. Sadly, the Newegg.ca has very limited pre-built PC options (There are only about 25... total) =/



Squilliam on 09 February 2010
Epoch said:
Squilliam said:

Actually Saphire makes almost all Radeon cards. The difference is that one has a factory overclock and whatever differences there are in support, warranty and box contents (aside from the card).

I didn't see any availability for the HD 4890 at that site. The card has been discontinued so its not surprising.

 

Ah, so the chipsets are basically the same, just some overclock them before you buy them? Then why is XFX 5850 $70 more than some of its competitors? Better warranty and packaging? Seems a bit funny, but Branding is powerful.

 

Jkimball, I have come to the conclusion that it probably wont be a whole lot cheaper than what I could buy in store, but the components will be better than the ones they use in a lot of the models I have looked at. Hopefully this leads to a longer lifespan. Sadly, the Newegg.ca has very limited pre-built PC options (There are only about 25... total) =/

What I mean is that an ASUS board which looks exactly the same as the HIS board and XFX board were all made by Saphire. Asus etc just stuck their brand on it and there litterally is no difference unless its a non standard board. XFX gives you a 'double lifetime warranty' which means that you and the person who buys it from you is covered forever. So yeah, its just an extended warranty by another name.

Just remember that as a Canadian you're stiffed on pricing, so even if they were available you'd still be stiffed by the same proportion.



Tease.

Epoch on 09 February 2010
Squilliam said:
Epoch said:
Squilliam said:

Actually Saphire makes almost all Radeon cards. The difference is that one has a factory overclock and whatever differences there are in support, warranty and box contents (aside from the card).

I didn't see any availability for the HD 4890 at that site. The card has been discontinued so its not surprising.

 

Ah, so the chipsets are basically the same, just some overclock them before you buy them? Then why is XFX 5850 $70 more than some of its competitors? Better warranty and packaging? Seems a bit funny, but Branding is powerful.

 

Jkimball, I have come to the conclusion that it probably wont be a whole lot cheaper than what I could buy in store, but the components will be better than the ones they use in a lot of the models I have looked at. Hopefully this leads to a longer lifespan. Sadly, the Newegg.ca has very limited pre-built PC options (There are only about 25... total) =/

What I mean is that an ASUS board which looks exactly the same as the HIS board and XFX board were all made by Saphire. Asus etc just stuck their brand on it and there litterally is no difference unless its a non standard board. XFX gives you a 'double lifetime warranty' which means that you and the person who buys it from you is covered forever. So yeah, its just an extended warranty by another name.

Just remember that as a Canadian you're stiffed on pricing, so even if they were available you'd still be stiffed by the same proportion.

Haha thanks for the clarification man, I'm just glad our dollar is similar to the U.S. right now, makes these types of things cheaper.

So maybe the $70 isn't worth it? I'd be satisfied if just I had the lifetime warranty, the next guy can go suck an egg. =P