I don't know, why haven't you made one until now?

It's a difficult situation for most of the EU, as they all face their own independence movements.

Frankly, the independence movement for Catalonia is rather ridiculous and rooted in faulty thinking spurred on by social media, but there's no denying that they DO want to secede and that the Spanish government is indeed doing everything it can to prevent that, including blocking access to the polling booths.

Well, it's absolutely illegal, so it's not surprising to see Spain use force to keep the country together. I do think that Catalan should have the right to secede if they want to, but why would you expect Spain to just bend over and take it?

Fascism is the wrong term here, it is centralism or the concentration of power away from many local governments into one central government, which is the EU.

Because human ideals in world politics aren't equal, it's about who does and what.

I do support an Independent Catalonia but I also understand the desire of Spain to keep a very profitable part of the country.
How would France react if a Brittany declared that they want to secede?
From the Spanish point of view, Catalonia has never really been Independent and has been part of Spain for longer than the USA has existed. Would the USA allow Texas to secede or California?

I am a Croatian and I understand the desire of a people to want to be lords of their own house. However, unlike in the case of Yugoslavia, Spain is actually a country with a large majority considering themselves Spanish. Yugoslavia was never really a unified country but rather a collection of different people and religions that were forced to share a house.

I don´t consider what Spain is doing Fascist but rather an attempt to maintain national unity, no other sovereign nation would act differently.

I generally prefer maintaining myself away from political threads in VGChartz, but I guess I'd like to give my two cents on this one.

I wouldn't call "Spain reverting to fascism" when Catalonia has basically vulnerated the Constitution they supposedly have adhered to all these years, have been repeatedly told that they can't do what they want to, to the point that the Constitutional Court sanctioned their actions (and they completely and utterly disregarded any of this), and the Govern is as corrupt as they get (as corrupt as Madrid's, basically) and partially uses the idea of Independence as a smokescreen to hide their own faults, not to mention they have absolutely zero plans mid/long-term (that I know of) if they manage to get the independence (let alone the fact that the European Union has also mentioned they won't support whatever Catalonia is up to, because it's illegal).

Now, it's unfortunate how incompetent our current political party choose to handle the situation. If you wanted to title the thread "Spain reverting to idiocity", then I'd be fine with that one, really, because these last years we've got nothing but fuck-ups after fuck-ups. What transpired the other day was definitively a massive mess that gave more legitimacy in everyone's eyes the Catalonia's cause. I'm no supporter of their independency, but I do support the fact that they should make a referendum if they so chose to - of course, through legal means. I wouldn't object to any of it, if everything was done like it's supposedly how it has to be done. If the vast majority would win through an established referendum, I'd accept the result entirely. What you can't tell me is that this illegal thing means anything when people could basically vote in one school, then go to a different one and keep voting. This is a mess that only benefits those who wants Yes and invalidates any kind of meaningful data we could extract from it.

There's plenty of things that Catalonia could discuss; a Constitutional reform/change/improvement, talks about turning Spain into Federalism...I dunno, there's plenty of actions they could take, but they're extremely obsessed with their Independent dream that they choose to disregard basically any sensible action they could progressively take here. I have sympathies for those who were injuried during the illegal voting the other day, but I have zero sympathy for what the Govern has been doing all along.

Now, I'd like to give numbers without any opinion attached to it. 2,200,000 people voted "Yes" to Independence in Catalonia through the illegal referendum (A bit less than the last time they pulled this out, though then again they didn't have the police issue back then). As far as I know, Catalonia has 7,000,000 people living there, based on the last census . It means from the total Catalonia population (that's including children - which by the way, I'm fairly sure they were allowed to vote in the illegal referendum, but don't quote me here), 31% of people do want Independence.

Don't be a simpleton, this conflict is too complicated for foreigns to completely understand, Spain acted like fascists this Sunday, I agree and I feel deeply ashamed for that, but the referendum is a fucking joke, completely ilegal, absurd and with no guarantees at all, Spain shouldn't be acting with violence but that doesn't mean the country is under fascism or that the government of Catalonia did right, they made this referendum going above its own catalan laws in a completely authoritarian and unilateral way.

Also the independentist movement is now seeing as a victim, so everybody is gonna be on their sides, but in reality this movement is fueled by huge egoism, an elitist way of thinking, a lot of populism, delusional unhealthy nationalism and a shameless manipulation of history, is not something inspiring, Catalonia has always been rich and they don't want to share their money, that's the biggest reason why they want to go, there is nothing romantic about it, they didn't wanted this when Spanish economy was good.

That said, now there's nothing more to do, the PP are fucking incompetents and acted like fascists this Sunday, so now Catalonia will hate Spain forever, now the only solution is to make a true real legal referendum and let them go.

I think most didn't understand why the Spanish government didn't just ignore the vote as it had no legal basis. The people that supported independence would vote and those that didn't wouldn't bother as it was illegal. Any result would have zero value but instead they used violence which was pretty shocking and un-necessary. It seems such a poorly judged decision to send the police in that it gives the Catalonian people a huge boost in moral superiority and makes it look like they should have the right to leave, as the Spanish government has lost a huge amount of respect worldwide. Watching the news you couldn't help but side with the catalonians seeking independence who looked like the victims of an oppressive state.

Suppose a gated community of millionaires declares independance unanimously to stop paying taxes. Would that be legitamate? Or, let's say, Alberta decides that they don't want to respect canadian environmental laws anymore, to make oil production cheaper.