Forums - Sales Discussion - Analyst: "Consumers are showing Nintendo the middle finger."

Why do you hate 3D Super Mario so much and why do you insist they are different series? Are 2D and 3D Zelda the same series?

IMO the 3D Mario Games are much better than the recent NSMB titles.



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Yes, I am showing them the middle finger right now.



d21lewis said:
^^Pulled solely from my ass (don't touch it):

I love a 2D Mario adventure as much as the next guy but do we really need one so soon? I mean, look at Mario 1, 2, 3, World, New, and New Wii. The first ones, up until NSMB were all very different from each other. When you look at NSMB Wii, it looks and feels a lot like the DS version with a tacked on, frustrating multi-player gimmick. That's not how I want my beloved series to evolve.

We hold the "real" Mario games to a higher standard than we do our Sonics, Call of Duty's, or Mega Mans. I don’t want a new Mario game unless Nintendo can make me think "this is the best game, ever!" like they've done with every Mario until we got to the 2D, "Me too" feel of NSMB Wii or the 3D "Me too" feel of SMG2. Maybe it's bad for business that we don’t get a new 2D Mario, yet. As a fan of Nintendo, I'd rather wait until we can get another sublime Mario game instead of another "Me too!" Mario game.

And looking at the upcoming Mario game for the 3DS, I can see it's in 3D but maybe.....just maybe, it packs enough 2D gameplay and old school charm that it will appeal to both old school Mario fans as well as 2D and 3D camps. Maybe this is the Holy Grail of Mario that my great great grandfather used to tell me stories about (before we put him in that home).

I think the reason why NSMB Wii had much of a "me too" feel to it is because in essence it didn't offer much more than the DS game in terms of content. There were a couple of new power-ups and multiplayer, but that was it. I didn't mind though, because the game is totally awesome.

Anyway, what needs to be done in a new game is new world themes in addition to the old ones. NSMB Wii used the same ones as NSMB which is why it feels so "me too". If it had, for example, Giant World or something else, it would have instantly become more exciting.

Places you haven't really seen in Mushroom Kingdom before, some new power-ups even if they are restricted to only some selected levels (like Kuribo's Shoe in SMB3) or being rare in general (like the Tanooki and Hammer Brother Suits in SMB3), that would do the trick. SMB really doesn't need to hold on to its eight worlds formula, what if there were twelve? Or if the next game would be more of a New Super Mario World with one single gigantic world map featuring about 120 levels? The game could constantly awe you with new secrets that you didn't expect.

And just forget about this Holy Grail, it's not going to happen.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club

A video game analyst saying something smart? He's clearly a fraud! Someone arrest this "analyst" for showing basic intelligence and competence at his job!

But yeah, there's really not much that can be added to this, "Sebastian Kramer" really knows his stuff, unlike Nintendo. The only good thing to come out of the market's rejection of the 3DS and most definitely the Wii U's is that somewhere down the line, there will be a turn around back to Nintendo's arcade roots, just like it happened with the Wii and DS.

And maybe we'll see some some serious action taken; Iwata, Miyamoto, Aonuma, Sakamoto and possibly a few others need to be reeled back, removed or even fired if it comes to the worst.




Signalstar said:
Why do you hate 3D Super Mario so much and why do you insist they are different series? Are 2D and 3D Zelda the same series?

IMO the 3D Mario Games are much better than the recent NSMB titles.

NSMB Wii sales are vastly better than SMG2. The market is treating them as different series and evidently prefers 2D regardless of your personal view of which is better. Why is Nintendo not making a 2D Mario on 3DS which is i) cheaper to make and ii) would sell much more?

3D Zelda has completely different gameplay to 2D. Zelda I was non-linear, had you fighting many enemies at once in fast paced, difficult combat and dungeons had no puzzles. Ocarina and sequels had you fighting enemies one at a time and you hardly ever die dur to difficulty, it is very linear, and dungeons are almost entirely puzzles.



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Signalstar said:
Why do you hate 3D Super Mario so much and why do you insist they are different series? Are 2D and 3D Zelda the same series?

IMO the 3D Mario Games are much better than the recent NSMB titles.

I only hate that 3D Mario gets treated better by Nintendo, even though consumers continually tell Nintendo that 2D Mario is the top dog through sales. I insist that they are different series, because they play vastly different. Which is why the sales of 3D and 2D Mario games end up being vastly different, despite releasing on the very same system.

Zelda didn't need to make as drastic changes as Mario when moving from 2D to 3D, so the differences are less pronounced, but still there. For that reason Nintendo should continue to make both top down and 3D Zelda titles, because there's demand for both types. Just like with Mario, it would be stupid to try to mix both types into one and only making that in the future.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club

I would sum up 2D Mario this way: The NSMB games recreated the FUN, but they did not recreate the AWESOME. They need to treat SMB like the premier series in the history of gaming, and make games that focus on just being bloody spectacular. New environments. Jumble up the order of the game instead of just 8 straight worlds. Introduce some new enemies and new boss enemies. Make badass music instead of "fun" music. Blow us away with the number of levels. More levels, shorter levels, harder levels. More open ended map. Different playable characters with different abilities. Over-powered power-ups, like the Hammer Bros. suit. Etc. The NSMB games were too cookie cutter, not enough production values, and got away with it by being really, really fun.

3D Mario needs to stop pretending to be something it's not, and just make Super Mario 128. We never got a real sequel to Mario 64; instead they went off the deep end with Mario Sunshine, went on an acid trip with Mario Galaxy, and now are regressing to patheticness with Mario 3D Land. Mario 64 had small, arena-like worlds, with stars hidden around in places that did not necessarily represent the "end" of the level. The problem with Mario 64 is that it threw you out of the level after collecting a star, and made you select the star you wanted to find from a menu. That is dumb, and the subsequent games strengthened this moronic design decision instead of fixing it. A good 3D Mario game would be about 25 little self-contained worlds to run around in, similar to the worlds from Mario 64, where you get rewarded with stars just for exploring and playing with things.

Basically 2D Mario is treated like a chore, and 3D Mario is treated like a science experiment. Just get your heads out of your asses and make the games people want. Yes, I'm giving Nintendo the middle finger.



"[Our former customers] are unable to find software which they WANT to play."
"The way to solve this problem lies in how to communicate what kind of games [they CAN play]."

Satoru Iwata, Nintendo President. Only slightly paraphrased.

Erik Aston said:
I would sum up 2D Mario this way: The NSMB games recreated the FUN, but they did not recreate the AWESOME. They need to treat SMB like the premier series in the history of gaming, and make games that focus on just being bloody spectacular. New environments. Jumble up the order of the game instead of just 8 straight worlds. Introduce some new enemies and new boss enemies. Make badass music instead of "fun" music. Blow us away with the number of levels. More levels, shorter levels, harder levels. More open ended map. Different playable characters with different abilities. Over-powered power-ups, like the Hammer Bros. suit. Etc. The NSMB games were too cookie cutter, not enough production values, and got away with it by being really, really fun.

3D Mario needs to stop pretending to be something it's not, and just make Super Mario 128. We never got a real sequel to Mario 64; instead they went off the deep end with Mario Sunshine, went on an acid trip with Mario Galaxy, and now are regressing to patheticness with Mario 3D Land. Mario 64 had small, arena-like worlds, with stars hidden around in places that did not necessarily represent the "end" of the level. The problem with Mario 64 is that it threw you out of the level after collecting a star, and made you select the star you wanted to find from a menu. That is dumb, and the subsequent games strengthened this moronic design decision instead of fixing it. A good 3D Mario game would be about 25 little self-contained worlds to run around in, similar to the worlds from Mario 64, where you get rewarded with stars just for exploring and playing with things.

Basically 2D Mario is treated like a chore, and 3D Mario is treated like a science experiment. Just get your heads out of your asses and make the games people want. Yes, I'm giving Nintendo the middle finger.

I completely agree with this.

The Super Mario Bros. series basically hasn't evolved much with the same themes and enemies being reused and the additional processing power since Super Mario World hasn't really been used either. In terms of production values Donkey Kong Country Returns is leaps and bounds ahead of NSMB Wii. Also, it ramped up the amount of levels from roughly 40 to above 60 while SMB is stuck with around 80 since SMB3 which was released about 20 years ago.

And 3D Mario really needs to stop with kicking you out of the level and should add more than just stars to collect. Banjo-Kazooie got these things right (aside from making you lose all notes in case you died), but Donkey Kong 64 was just overkill in terms of collectibles. Banjo-Tooie was insane with the scope of its levels, everything was just way too huge.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club

I will accept the doom theories, after I see the christmas sales.

As a side note, does anybody know whats the painting in the "Iwata Asks" room?



Looks like Sebastian Kramer reads Malstrom.
They're both right.