By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Politics - US Politics |OT| - View Post

JWeinCom said:

How is it Israeli propaganda when it is literally in their charter? The updated version you just posted? The most charitable interpretation is that they want an Islamic state that encompasses present day Israel which would allow Israelis to remain.

SvennoJ said:

That's mostly Israeli propaganda. Hamas was formed after Likud adopted the slogan as their party platform. Hamas turned it around and made it rhyme for it to catch on. "From the river to the sea, Palestine shall be free."

The original Hamas platform was very reactionary, they updated their party platform in 2017

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/doctrine-hamas

In 2017, a revised Hamas manifesto included three departures from the 1988 charter, former U.S. diplomat Aaron David Miller told The Islamists. First, Hamas accepted the establishment of a Palestinian state separate from Israel —although only provisionally. Its statement on principles and policies said, “Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea. However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus.â€Â Second, it attempted to distinguish between Jews or Judaism and modern Zionism. Hamas said that its fight was against the “racist, aggressive, colonial and expansionistâ€Â Zionist project, Israel, but not against Judaism or Jews. The updated platform also lacked some of the anti-Semitic language of the 1988 charter. Third, the document did not reference the Palestinian Muslim Brotherhood, from which Hamas was originally an offshoot.


Here is the 'Zionist' propaganda

https://www.adl.org/resources/article/hamas-its-own-words

Since its founding in the late 1980s, Hamas has been promoting rhetoric and policies aimed at destroying the Jewish state of Israel and killing Jews and Israelis around the world. This is evident in their founding charter, which cites the infamous Protocols of the Elders of Zion forgery as “proof” of a Zionist plot to control the world. It remains true after Hamas released a new charter in 2017, which essentially simply swapped the word “Jew” out and replaced it with “Zionist” while repeating antisemitic tropes. 


Here is the Hamas version:

https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/hamas-2017.pdf

16. Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity.

17. Hamas rejects the persecution of any human being or the undermining of his or her rights on nationalist, religious or sectarian grounds. Hamas is of the view that the Jewish problem, anti-Semitism and the persecution of the Jews are phenomena fundamentally linked to European history and not to the history of the Arabs and the Muslims or to their heritage. The Zionist movement, which was able with the help of Western powers to occupy Palestine, is the most dangerous form of settlement occupation which has already disappeared from much of the world and must disappear from Palestine.

While they indeed reject the occupation from the start and state all of Palestine (prior 1947) shall be free, here are the concessions:

20. Hamas believes that no part of the land of Palestine shall be compromised or conceded, irrespective of the causes, the circumstances and the pressures and no matter how long the occupation lasts. Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea. However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their
homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus.

Which would be this 2 state solution
https://www.britannica.com/topic/two-state-solution



Anyway I'm not here to defend Hamas, they need to relinquish power as they have said they will do. Hence the technocratic interim government proposal until fair elections can be held.

Marwan Barghouti is the most popular Palestinian 'leader' atm, he should be freed so he can form a new political party.
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Marwan-Barghouti

Netanyahu and his Likud party are the problem

Netanyahu vows there will be no Palestinian state ahead of UN meeting
https://abcnews.go.com/International/netanyahu-vowsthere-palestinian-stateahead-meeting/story?id=125489981

"This place is ours," Netanyahu said at a settlement expansion celebration.


2015 Israel’s PM Netanyahu: No Palestinian state on my watch
https://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/16/middleeast/israel-netanyahu-palestinian-state

The prospect of a Palestinian state is nil so long as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu stays in office, Netanyahu said in a Monday interview.


2013 Binyamin Netanyahu rejects calls for Palestinian state within 1967 lines
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/20/binyamin-netanyahu-palestinian-state-1967

Binyamin Netanyahu has vowed to rebuff international demands to allow a Palestinian state with a border based on the pre-1967 Green Line and its capital in East Jerusalem, as hardline pro-settler parties and factions are expected to make unprecedented gains in Tuesday's election.


In 2009 he pretended to be up for a Palestinian state, except it would not be a sovereign state.

Netanyahu backs an independent Palestinian state for first time
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/jun/14/binyamin-netanyahu-israel-palestinian-state

The Israeli prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, last night said for the first time he would accept an independent Palestinian state, but only on condition it was demilitarised and that the Palestinians recognised Israel as the state of the Jewish people.

In a key policy speech intended to address growing US pressure for a move towards peace in the Middle East, Netanyahu defended Israel's position and said he wanted to make peace, but despite his mention of a Palestinian state he offered few substantial concessions.

He praised the Jewish settlers who live in east Jerusalem and on the occupied West Bank and refused US calls for a halt to all settlement growth. He also said Palestinian refugees, who were forced out or fled from their homes during the 1948 war, would not be allowed to return to what is today Israel. Jerusalem, he said, must remain united under Israeli control.

His conditions were strict. He said the Palestinians could not form an army or control their own airspace, or sign military agreements with other states. He mentioned a Palestinian state only once and at other times talked only of areas under Palestinian control, saying the Palestinians could have their own "flag, anthem and administration".

Israel’s Ruling Party Rejects Palestinian State, Arabs Reaffirm Peace Plan
2002 https://adc.org/israels-ruling-party-rejects-palestinian-state-arabs-reaffirm-peace-plan/

The Central Committee of the Likud, the party which leads Israel’s coalition government, yesterday voted that “No Palestinian state will be created west of the Jordan [River].” The vote passed by 59% to 41%. Supporters of the resolution, led by former Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, insisted that Israel would never permit an independent Palestinian state of any kind in any part of historical Palestine.


1998 https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1998/05/25/benjamin-netanyahu-the-outsider

The left, of course, cannot bear Netanyahu. In their view, Bibi has “killed the peace,” eradicated the historical chance symbolized by the 1993 and 1995 Oslo accords with the Palestinians. Bibi’s enemies see him as an incompetent, unimaginative, and cynical politician with a singular gift for staying in office. “Netanyahu knows very well what he wants,” Uri Savir, who had been Rabin’s chief negotiator in Oslo, told me, “and the main thing is to steer Israel in the direction of a mutual-deterrence policy, because he does not really believe in real peace. He does not believe in a new quality of relations. He also sees everything through the eyes of a political animal and he wants to be reëlected. Everything he does is to play to his right-wing constituency. To appeal to them, he uses the buzzwords that appeal to their ghetto mentality.”


1991 https://www.wrmea.org/1991-july/binyamin-netanyahu-the-joe-isuzu-of-the-middle-east-media-wars.html

Familiar with television's need for "good copy" and with American cultural codes, Netanyahu constructed a contradiction in terms: a Likud with a human face. The American television viewer does not have to face such realities of the Likud policies as the violent suppression of the Palestinian population and the long-term plans of annexing the Arab territories and expelling their population to the "Palestinian state" of Jordan. With a few simplistic slogans, Netanyahu suggests that happy days are here again, as far as the American-Israeli relationship is concerned. The Soviet menace has disappeared, but there are, thank God, new villains that, together, Israel and the United States can contain, such as Islamic fundamentalism and Saddam Hussain.


...

To exploit personally these Israel-inspired foreign policy orientations, Netanyahu launched in 1979 the "Jonathan Institute. " Named after his late brother, and masked as an academic "think tank," the institute opened offices in Washington, New York and Jerusalem, with the goal of influencing US and other Western opinion makers. According to Edward Herman and Gerry O'Sullivan, writing in their study, The "Terrorism " Industry, the institute serves as a "virtual arm of the Israeli state." Its "main activity from its birth was the organization of conferences, carefully designed to bring sympathetic leaders, experts and journalists to get across the message: the PLO is a terrorist organization, and the Soviet Union is its parent and supporter."

Of course nowadays it's Iran instead of the Soviet Union.


It is literally in the Likud charter
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/original-party-platform-of-the-likud-party

It's a colonial platform towards an ethnocentric state.