sc94597 said:
Replying to this in a separate post because it is a different topic. Even if we take your premise as true (that the Switch 2 is using the same AE cores that exist in Orin) we are still seeing about 2.8 times the performance of the PS4's CPU in multi-core and 2.5 times in single-core, using Geekerwan's simulated test where he clocked the 8 AE cores (also on an 8 nm node, btw) in an Orin NX at 1.1 Ghz and 1Ghz and ran Geekbench 6 (which no, is not measuring GPU at all. Geekbench's GPU test is a separate benchmark from its CPU test.)
But in reality the Switch 2 does have an A78C with 8-cores on single cluster (confirmed by the leaked SDK.) This gives it an advantage in multi-core over the 2 Cluster x 4 Core 78AE's in the Orin NX. So the benchmark above is probably a slight (5-10%) under-estimate for multi-core performance. . You can also see that the A78AE and A78C are different cores, even if the exact same size. So it's not just a binned T234.
Like is typical with consoles, cache probably was "reduced" (remember 8MB L3 is the maximum ("up to') for A78C, not the full range it can come with, which is Optional 512KB - 8MB) to make space on the die. By the way, ARM designs their cores to work on multiple different fabs. You can see this in this image from the Geekerwan video.
The Dimensity 8200 has 4 A78 (no-suffix) cores and is on TSMC 4nm while the Snapdragon 888 has 3 A78 cores and is on Samsung 5nm. In the image above we see SF 3nm-5nm, TSMC 4nm-6nm all using the same A78 (no-suffix) cores. A78AE itself comes in a Samsung 5nm variant (Auto v920) in certain Audi cars and a Samsung 8nm in the Jetson Orin devices. Video from Kurnal where you can find a lot of this information. 13:07 is where the core-cluster ratio is discussed. |
Of course ARM cores are used on different fabrication processes my point was the performance figures are given for the best fabrication process and to use the same A78C cores you have to have a different design often downgraded to work on older fabrication processes. The roots of the Switch 2 T239 with its tensor core design and reduced cache are of the same age and generation which goes back to final silicon in 2020/21. You can't just inject later tech into the design and its unfair to compare same or similar CPUs on different fabrication processes. That shows you how these CPU's have to be heavily redesigned to work on different fabrication processes and often feature limited on older fabrication processes.
We are seeing the Switch 2 natively render at very low resolutions and then upscaling with DLSS to make its performance competitive. If it really had the spec you claimed why does it need to render at 360p at times often below that of the original Switch lowest rendering resolution. The Switch 2 only has a 20Wh battery it cannot afford the performance you believe and there are no indications it can do that anyway. It is DLSS that is saving the day by rendering at such low resolutions.
You have to get back to reality a 10/8Nm fabrication process, a very low capacity battery, only being allowed a peak wattage for the SOC of 4-6W per hour to give the 10W maximum allowing for the screen that is going to be around 4-6W on its own. The Switch 2 is based around a very low performance power efficient Nvidia chipset from 2020/2021 on a fabrication process of that time. You are throwing loads of data in your replies most of which isn't relevant to the Switch 2 and its fabrication process and age of design.
The Switch 2 has about 3-4x the CPU performance of the original Switch a huge upgrade. It has a GPU capable of 5-6x the docked performance in graphic teraflops and 3x the memory. It's a huge generational leap but its still having to render more ambitious games at resolutions as low as 360p. You need to get real rather than for every bit of Switch 2 spec assume the very best possible performance. It's a low cost low performance design from 2021 given a boost with more system memory and storage plus of course DLSS upscaling technology.
I'm sure as time goes on we will get a much better analysis of retail Switch 2's and what they are capable of. Today is only the launch day, in the coming weeks and months we will get a lot more information why the Switch 2 is limited to rendering at such low resolutions and relying on upscaling so much.
