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Ryuu96 6 days ago
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Skeeuk said:

I hope financial aid is also pulled from Ukraine. This whole thing has been a disgrace if Zalensky had an ounce of shame he would have agreed to Istanbul deal and keep all of Ukraine and give up joining Nato.

Now it turns out Nato joining is Impossible so its a case of egg on face he's messed up and needs to go. It needs to be stopped immidiatly via ceasefire

I don't know if you're a naïve fool or simply a mindless drone repeating Russian propaganda, I've already banned you from the Russia-Ukraine thread because you kept popping your head in every few months, posting some utter bollocks and then diving out when people responded to you, because like Russia, you are a coward, you can't back up your opinions because you know supporting Russia makes you look like a sicko.

You "couldn't wait" for the West to abandon Ukraine and for Russia to slaughter them. Two years ago you also posted that "there's not much left to take to incorporate the 4 new regions" - How's that working on for you? You said that the war started because Ukraine was being mean to Russians in Ukraine. You have nothing to say except drive by Russian propaganda.

You hope financial aid is pulled, the same financial that goes towards helping innocent civilians.

The Istanbul deal? Lets look at that shall we.

The treaty would declare Ukraine to be allowed to apply for EU membership and to be a neutral state; put a limit on the size of its military forces; cease NATO membership plans; forbid foreign military bases; and list Russia and Western countries, among which were the US and the UK, as guarantors, obliged to assist Ukraine in case of aggression against it . The status of Crimea would have to be negotiated after 10 to 15 years

So basically, the Budapest Memorandum, which Russia was already a signature to, in which Ukraine surrendered their nuclear weapons in exchange for security guarantees from Russia, America, UK and France. Oh look, that didn't work out did it? Russia broke it in 2014 and then again in 2022. So much for that security commitment.

Gee, I wonder why a country which has invaded multiple countries during Putin's leadership, including twice invading Ukraine territory, would want Ukraine to limit the size of its military force and be blocked from joining NATO after making a shitshow of the initial invasion which was intended to take at least up to Kyiv territory? Oh it couldn't possibly be so they can re-arm and try again at a later date!

Guarantors come to Ukraine's defence "on the basis of a decision agreed to by all guarantor states", thus giving Russia the possibility to veto a military response by the guarantors.

The draft agreement was never completed.

  • Russia be treated as a neutral security “guarantor state” of Ukraine along with the other permanent members of the UN Security Council, repeating the premise of the Minsk II Accords that did not treat Russia as a belligerent in the war.
  • Ukraine be forbidden to invite partner forces to conduct military exercises in Ukrainian territory, airspace, territorial waters, and exclusive economic zone without the consent of China and Russia.
  • China and Russia have a veto over the mechanism for responding to future armed conflict in Ukraine by making China and Russia Ukraine’s security guarantors and granting the United Nations Security Council the authority to take “measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security.” China and Russia are permanent members of the UNSC and can use their veto power to block responses to future Russian aggression under these conditions. 
  • Ukraine lift all Ukrainian sanctions against Russia imposed since 2014 and withdraw criminal cases against Russia in the International Criminal Court for war crimes against Ukraine.
  • Ukraine amend its constitution to remove the provision committing Ukraine to NATO membership and to add a neutrality provision that would ban Ukraine from joining any military alliances, concluding military agreements, or hosting foreign military personnel, trainers, or weapon systems in Ukraine.  Ukraine disarm almost completely and commit never to fielding a military capable of defending the country. The draft agreement specifically imposed the following caps on the Ukrainian Armed Forces

You can't be this dense to look and this and think of it as anything other than Russia ensuring a weakened Ukraine to make another attempt on them at a later date, as Russia has repeatedly done in the past (Hello Chechnya War, Crimea 2014 and Ukraine 2022). Ukraine gets to choose what alliances it joins as an independent state. Just like we don't have the right to slaughter Belarus for joining CSTO, Russia doesn't have the right to slaughter Ukraine for wanting to join NATO.

The Istanbul Deal was also severely impacted after Ukraine uncovered the Bucha massacre.

Russia has repeatedly stated they have no interest in a ceasefire and their maximalist goals have not changed.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - 6 days ago