2024 US Presidential Election

[RolStoppable]

Mnementh said:

And yet... working class peoples lives got worse during the Biden administration while rich people got richer.

And yet... if asked (which AOC did) many people say working class problems.

You and many of the more wealthy middle class are fine with what Biden/Harris did. Many people are not, they are angry and feels like the Democrats act like their worries don't matter. That is the result that can be seen. Now you can deny it or you can ask why. You seem to invest all your energy on denial.

I wasn't very active in the thread, because I had over the last elections mostly lost the belief that the Democrats can tackle real issues. In the last elections Sanders did run in the primaries and brought on a lot of these issues. The big loss this time may have been a chance that the Democrats wake up and listen to the poorer, less educated, working class people. But you and others here keep convincing me that the Democrats aren't willing to change, to not even see any reason to do so. I don't think they will do much better in the future given this. I also don't think this will work out in Austria either, have fun with the FPÖ.

The democrats in the US did move to the right over the years, allowing the Republicans to go even more extreme right. If the democrats are not willing to change course, I believe we need a new real left movement. And not only in the US, europe sees similar problems with many establishment parties moving away from left positions while at the same time this gives room to fascist movements: Le Pen, AfD, FPÖ, Orban, PiS. I believe the antidote is bringing back real leftist movements with strong social and economic left policies. But most parties are afraid to piss off major companies and rich people, and yes, that includes the Democrats in the US. But that will be needed in my opinion.

As a leftist it is frustrating to discuss online. Issues and problems of people are denied. And you get accused of supporting the right, as you tried in the last post. So yeah, use the loss as a chance to reform or don't do anything and blame the voters.

Looks like you didn't even bother to click on the link I provided.

The problems for the working class are real, so these people should vote for the party that will work to improve their situation. That's the basic and logical premise. When these people then go vote someone who will make things worse for them, because the other option only ever makes incremental improvements instead of a big splash, then you absolutely have to question the intelligence of voters. Bernie Sanders put this into the political correct form in that he blamed the Democrats for not getting the message across whereas Donald Trump had provided an explanation for why the working class is suffering; Sanders summed up Trump's reasoning and immediately denounced it as bullshit which implicitly means as much as voters allowed themselves to get fooled. Of course Sanders and other actual left-wing politicians are using the Democrats' loss to boost the importance of their own agenda, but I doubt that he's happy that it has played out this way, because he knows that the Democrats had the better policies in this election.

It's funny that you bring up the FPÖ in Austria who got the most votes, but doomed itself to watch the next government from the sidelines. You bring up the FPÖ as a zinger, but it smacks you right back in the face because it shows how little you follow politics. People who voted for the FPÖ are either evil or stupid, and yes, you can and have to blame voters because all of them make their own decision. They are not getting coerced, threatened or anything else like that. It's a free choice.