2024 US Presidential Election

[RolStoppable]

Mnementh said:

Hey, nobody said Trumps policies are good for the working class, you really are fighting windmills here.

Bernie Sanders said that Biden had good policies enacted, but he also said it isn't enough, as the rich still get richer while the working class still suffers. More is needed. Kyle Kulinski commented it as being the tallest in kindergarden - you can brag, but it doesn't mean as much in the bigger picture.

Additionally the Democrat party didn't really show alliance to working class. If at all they got condescending messages. The actual focus of the campaign wasn't working class worries, but how republican the democrats now are: owning guns, securing border and so on.

And in your argument is an assumption baked in: the assumption that every voter Harris lost gone and vote Trump. But the reality is, that Trump pretty much got the same number of votes as 2020: he got 74 million in 2020 and now got about a million more. Harris lost 10 million votes compared to Biden 2020. So it isn't a question of Trump being better. It is more a question if the democrats are good enough, and for many voters they weren't apparently. So comparing with Trump is pointless, the question should be: how can the democrats be better.

And yes, vibes do matter more than the nitty gritty details. But either way, even if looking at the real data shows that peoples life didn't improve under Biden and the vibe of the democratic party is that they don't care about the simple worker, more that Nancy Pelosi can keep getting rich off insider trading. The vibe is, that the democratic party cares more about graduates from elite universities, than uneducated working people at minimum wage jobs.

So, you and sundin call people idiots, because they didn't act like you wanted, not acknowledging how different people are and live and how different their situation is. You are handwaving it as not rational, even though their situation isn't really improving with democratic policies as they are now. The question is how much it is worth if Don Quijote is calling people idiots, who didn't join him in the fight against windmills. Who is the idiot here?

What I was saying is that your made-up story is what the Harris campaign actually did. Before it was ignorance on your part, but now it's denial.

Votes in California are still being counted because the deadline for mail-in ballots is apparently today; estimate is that ~25% are left to count in that state which amounts to at least 4 million votes. In other words, the final numbers of this election aren't even in yet. But more importantly, because of the American voting system you have to look at state results instead of national results, and specifically the seven swing states which were really the only ones that mattered because all the other states were regarded as secure and turned out that way too. The counting in the swing states is pretty much done, so this is worth looking at.

Arizona: Harris -160k compared to Biden in 2020 (Trump +30k compared to himself in 2020); Georgia: Harris +70k (Trump +200k); Michigan: Harris -70k (Trump +150k); Nevada: Harris -10k (Trump +60k); North Carolina: Harris +0k (Trump +130k); Pennsylvania: Harris -120k (Trump +170k); Wisconsin: Harris +40k (Trump +90k).

There's something of everything in these results. Arizona falls in line with your assertion that Harris lost votes that Trump didn't gain. Georgia, North Carolina and Wisconsin have both candidates gaining, but Trump moreso. Michigan, Nevada and Pennsylvania have Trump gain at the expense of Harris.

The working class has financial problems. The Harris campaign said "we hear you, here are concrete proposals to make things better for you" while Trump rambled about tariffs which are an additional tax on all Americans, including the working class. The fact remains that it is irrational and stupid to pick the latter option. But be my guest and deny it another time that the Harris campaign kept talking about the costs of living.

Lastly, you've said it before that you don't want to help the right. But that's exactly what you are doing by picking up their narrative that the Democrats are to blame for everything, with no responsibility whatsoever lying with the voters. There are actually three factors that contributed to this election's results:

• Stupid voters.
• Biden insisting for too long that he has to run for re-election which eventually left the Democrats with endorsing Harris as the only possible choice to get a new campaign up and running in time.
• The Trump campaign and Fox News running very deceptive ads and coverage which circles back to the first point, because stupid people are easily deceived. Mainstream media should be mentioned here too, because all too often they engaged in sane-washing Trump's rambling.

During the broadcast of Lions vs. Packers I got to watch a Trump ad where they selectively quoted Harris and big news media, like the New York Times to suggest that Harris was going to raise taxes on the working class. It's baffling that something like that is legally allowed in the USA. On a similar note, during the final stretch of the campaign, Trump ran on the slogan "Kamala broke it, Trump will fix it." That's another instance of deception because vice presidents do not make policies; that's also why during the vice presidential debate between Vance and Walz neither man was asked which policies they are going to enact if elected.