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Zkuq on 06 November 2024
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Ryuu96 said:
Zkuq said:

You guys should chill out a bit. As much as I loathe and distrust Trump, he's also way more speech than action, even if he's also action. I have significant worries myself, and Ukraine certainly won't be doing better, but it might also not be as bad as you expect. Trump can't end the war quickly unless he's actually ready for action as well if needed, and I'm sure he knows that, which leads me to think his voters don't really care about what he does about Ukraine all that much.

Maybe, but then he has told Orban (privately) that he would cut off aid to Ukraine. He has surrounded himself with anti-Ukraine voices (JD Vance, Elon Musk, JFK Jr) and spent lengthy parts of his rallies talking shit about Ukraine and Zelenskyy. I feel the only way for Ukraine is to somehow play massively to Trump's ego and hope that works which they are already doing. Also Trump holds a vendetta against Ukraine/Zelenskyy.

Maybe sell Trump that he could be the hero of Ukraine and build some fucking hotels there or some stupid shit after the war, Lol. Or more seriously, sell America something that Trump can benefit from, like drilling rigs or a few of their rare mineral mining operations. Sickening to imagine Zelenskyy is going to have to basically get on his hands and knees for Trump to help.

Would rather UK stepped up and gave America something than Ukraine though. Europe needs to massively step up on their own terms but I'd be fine with Keir trying to convince Trump, isn't that what UK has always been? The go-between America and Europe. Maybe Trump will listen to us, maybe not. Worth a try and while we're trying we need to work on becoming independent of America.

Yeah, but I don't think Ukraine is just going to surrender if Trump cuts off all aid from the US. Maybe Ukraine won't fight until the bitter end, but it certainly seems like they've got some juice to make it costly for Russia. I just don't see Zelenskyy, or anyone else, giving up now while they can still fight, struggle as it might be. The Ukrainian people might be willing to make peace, even at cost, but I don't they're at all ready to essentially surrender. Trump would have to make both parties an offer they think they can't best for a quick peace (i.e. something involving de facto independence for Ukraine even in the future if they make peace, and probably much worse time for Russia if they refuse), and I don't think he's committed enough for that.