EU and UK politics [OT]

[Mummelmann]

There are similar issues, and subsequent movements among the population, in several countries right now. Canada is also seeing a rise in anti-immigrant sentiment, the same goes here in Sweden. The biggest issue in threads and conversation like this, by far in my opinion, is the polarized nature of the discussion. It's either full-blood Commies or outright Nazis, one way or the other, causing all the issues, at least that's what we're told. Angry, often misguided, people cause problems and start riots, and their behavior and actions are used as the basis to dismiss any valid concern and argument that happens to be tied to the same root cause. More and more definitions, opinions, and qualities are squeezed under huge ideological umbrellas that house a whole host of issues and subjects. If you make a statement or argument that is counter to just a single one of those housed under one of said umbrellas; you're categorically lumped into the same corner as everything and everyone else under there. In addition, you're assumed to be against everything and everyone under the opposite/other umbrella of terms, subjects, and definitions.

Around these parts, there are two main stories about immigration:

1: Migrants are nothing but trouble, will never contribute anything, and should not be allowed.

2: Migrants are the only thing standing between us and certain doom by low birth rates and low interest in lower-tier jobs of a critical nature and importance.

Regardless of what is presented, most people have a considerably more sober view on things. I've rarely come across anyone who subscribes to either of the above notions, but it does generate clicks to perpetuate the stereotypes (and with news and entertainment now being fully merged into one dysfunctional pot, it's the go-to strategy for remaining relevant).
Immigration has more or less always been a thing, but what has not always been a thing is mass-immigration on the scale some countries are seeing today. Even the most kind-hearted and well-meaning individual would be hard pressed to solve some of the undeniable practical, ethical, and economic issues that stem from rapid demographic changes. Most developed nations have societies and systems where long-term organic development has lead to:

A: Predicable population growth and demographic spread.
B: Predictable and manageable levels of education.
C: Predictable housing markets and locales for vendors and trade.
D: Predictable health-care functions with decent coverage.
E: Predictable cultural responses to anything from social policy to global events.

So, if there is a massive influx of people from widely different cultures, no matter how well-meaning and hopeful they are themselves, problems will arise.

A: Contrary to birthing rates here, it's still common to have 5-6 children or more in many cultures, this creates challenges with integration and education for busy mothers who also likely live under strict religious or patriarchal rules and internal laws. By extension, language training lags behind due to parents still speaking their native language at home, with the children. This also excludes them from helping with homework, enjoying local culture like music and TV, books etc.

B: In some nations, such as Somalia, literacy rates are hovering right around 35-45%, with big discrepancies between generations. Both Somalia and Afghanistan populate the bottom 10 nations on earth in literacy rates, just as examples. This further pushes wedges between parent and child, as the children are much more likely to adapt through the educational system. There are also religious objections to some of the curriculum, as well as insistence that children be divided into boy and girl classes, for instance (swimming lessons are a hot topic in this regard). Women who arrive are often monolingual, have never or barely gone to school, and lack any form of relevant work experience, even in their 40s and 50s.

C: Housing markets are imploding and prices soaring. The available units are, like the rest of society, organically adapted to a culture with smaller family constellations, leading to further issues for families with many children. Finding somewhere to live with 1-2 children, and finding somewhere with 4 children or more, is vastly different. All this leads to heavy segregation; sufficiently large units at an affordable price are invariably found in rough neighborhoods - further exasperating the issues under point A and B.

D: Diseases and medical issues long since eradicated are re-appearing. All with the added complications of large swaths of demographics either not trusting the systems, are unable to afford or make full use of them, or simply lack understanding of them (requiring interpreters and other solutions, often making their children assume these roles unfairly), or a combination of all. During the COVID pandemic, the spread was much higher among immigrants, the combination of living in insufficiently sized living spaces, mistrust of authority, lack of communication, and cultural tendency to congregate in places of prayer spurred the issue on fiercely. From within these areas themselves, the increased spread was wholly blamed on authorities and various forms of systemic racism. We also saw similar issues in the US, when believers flocked to churches to pray COVID away, inevitably leading to more spread (the blood of Jesus Christ did, in fact, not protect them).

E: Conflicts from different parts of the world are being brought into nations that has no connection with them. There was recently a huge melee in a park here between supporters of and opposition to the Eritrean regime. This all leads to lack of understanding, like placing Armenian and Azerbaijani refugees in the same house (as a quick example), as well as social unrest in certain areas - with their roots in foreign concerns. People from cultures built around clan structures are also finding it hard settling in institutional societies with a strong state and/or municipal/regional sector that can overrule the familiar structure in issues revolving around children, work, education and conflicts. They have a natural (and from their perspective; reasonable and well-founded) distrust for state and officials, coming from areas with immense level of corruption. There are also huge, obvious issues with honor culture and highly misogynist, homophobic, and overall intolerant views within many cultures.

I myself am an immigrant, if only from the neighboring country, but it's easier for me since I come from a place so similar in most respects. Even without cultural and religious differences, the sheer logistics of having 1-3% population increases annually are insurmountable for most countries. I've had a hard time finding somewhere to live during my 11 years here, in spite of decent income and contacts, and no need for extra space (no kids). Immigration in various forms is something both needed and desirable, by many metrics, but the very real issues that arise from sudden and large demographic changes have to be taken seriously. I will never condone rioting though, I don't see its purpose in a modern, civilized society.

Cultures develop in increments, not in leaps and bounds. If we go to other parts of the world and bomb them to hell, with the purported goal of "converting" them to our ways of living, we should expect failure (ask the Taliban what their democratic process looks like). Expecting the process to go buttery-smooth when the same people try to fit into our ways by coming here of their own accord in large numbers is equally void of logic. Things take time, and just about the only thing we've succeeded in doing is stoking the embers of issues we either solved or were on the verge of solving back into full-on flames (pertaining to women's rights, economical equality, sexual acceptance, functioning justice system etc.).

I consider myself on the liberal-left ends of the spectrum, so for me, clans and enclaves - much like a hostile state, represent a hurdle in our right to be ourselves in expression, opinion, and endeavor. What scares me the most right now, is how both left and right-wing voters all over are increasingly prone to authoritarian notions, in order to solve what they respectively see as the main issues. I fear for the existence of liberalism, which is probably the single-most impactful political and social mechanic for development in the past few centuries.

Last edited by Mummelmann - on 08 August 2024