JuliusHackebeil said:
I don't think it is right to call it a genozide. If so,Israel is doing a very bad job. They could be far more effective, even with the world watching, compared to what they are doing now. And this is using figures Hamas provided, a group whos ethics I do not entirely trust not to lie for their gain.
But even with their numbers (recently the ratio of women, children and elderly has been lowered) the civilian-combatant-casualty ratio does not look bad at all, compared to other wars we had. If this is a genozide and unethical targeting of civillians, so was Korea, Vietnam, the war on ISIS, Iraq, Afghanistan etc.
And how many Russian forces have to be killed for the international crys for a ceasfire? Russia started it, Ukraine is defending itself. The difference is only that the attacked Ukraine is perceived as weak, so they get support (from me too). The attacked Israel is perceived as strong in comparison to Gaza and Hamas. So they just have to take the attack?
No, Israel has the right to defend itself. And when they have a group of people who really are, by their own admission, genozidal towards them, they have to completely destroy that group of people, Hamas (not Palestine). A ceasfire would just give Hamas the opportunity to get strong again. They have to be destroyed.
Hamas started this war. As far as I am concerned the blood of the innocent Palestinians is on their hands, not on Israel. And that is my next point - Gaza (obviously) lost. And yet the war continues. This is not because of Israels cruelty. It is because of Hamas cruelty. A ceasfire is not the only way to stop this war. Hamas could surrender completely, instead of hiding behind their people they should serve, using them as human shields. Really simple, if you stop making war with Israel, you don't have one on your hands.
There were people around the world celebrating 07.10. None of these people wanted a ceasfire than. Now that "their side" is losing they cry about an end to the violence. Not saying these are always the very same people. But the huge protests in Sidney, London etc. were not held on 07.10. That did not warrent coming out in 10s of thousands of people to shout about an end to violence. Just when Israel responds, then it is a crime to protest against.
The international response is really fascinating to me. So many wars around the world with so many dead muslims, way more civilian casualties than Israel is responsible for right now, yet nobody gave a flying f*. But the moment the jews kill muslims it is a crime against humanity. Selective outrage like this is hypocritical as far as I can tell.
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If Israel is providing numbers of how many combatants they killed why can't they tell us how many civilians had to die in the process?
Non of this started on the 7th of October, and if it did, why is the West Bank displacement and settlements are going ahead and allowed to happen for decades?
You can't accuse SvennoJ of selective outrage, he's educated on many conflicts on which muslims killed muslims including the war on Yemen (with American weapons that were liberally despite knowing to whom they're going to), and has been fiercely outspoken about many of them, like many others in independent media outlets (that are frequently cited here and have no problems calling this war for what it is; a genocide).
Just because of a bunch of fucks managed to trigger you in Sydney or London, it doesn't mean we lose sight of what's right and wrong. My views on the unopposed spread of the hateful Islamic ideologies in the west is probably well-known around these forums, it doesn't mean I am ok watching Palestinians slaughtered by ultra far right religious maniacs who have made their goals and intents very clear to everyone and everybody.
Not only these maniacs are slaughtering innocents, but they're interfering with our elections too in broad daylight. They have already chosen which candidate to back in the upcoming elections. How does the Israeli government continue to have any supporters in the west despite all of this is beyond me!
