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[curl-6]

the-pi-guy said:

curl-6 said:

This view is a gross oversimplification, there are countless factors that determine someone's position in the world and skin colour or gender are just two of them, and thanks to the left, white people and males experience racism and sexism in today's culture too.

Most things are a gross oversimplification. It's a big struggle with left wing politics in general. A lot of right wing politics is extremely black and white. Whereas a lot of left wing politics seems to confuse even people that claim to be left wing.

curl-6 said:

Culture warriors on the left will constantly tell you to shut up and that you're trash just for existing or that you're not allowed to speak. You're automatically viewed as bad based on traits you were born into through no choice of your own.

Both sides do similar things. They ban things that those people think are dangerous, and left wingers/right wingers have completely conflicting ideas on what things are dangerous to society.

Right wing spaces will ban you if you're pushing left wing views like anti-racism, "transgender ideology".

Left wing spaces will ban you if they feel you're pushing racist/sexist views, or in general dismissing the views of less fortunate people. 

curl-6 said:

"Equality feels like oppression to the privileged" is just pithy rubbish used to justify mistreating people.

Nah, it's a constant issue.

Straight people thought it was unfair that gay people were starting to be allowed to be married. 

A constant issue in America is that Christianity is the default. Anything opposed to that is oppressive to Christians. Muslims, Jews, Atheists having the same rights is unfair. 

curl-6 said:

And that's exactly the problem; the left thinks you can solve hate with hate, and you can't, that's like trying to put out a wildfire with a flamethrower. The more you lecture and yell at people, the more you breed acrimony and resentment, and the more divided we all become. This is how we ended up with the alt right, the left became so aggressive and pushy that they pushed people into the arms of the far right.

I think there are a bunch of combined issues.

In a certain kind of way, I agree with you. A lot of times people say terrible things out of ignorance, and not out of spite. And a lot of left wing communities won't bother trying to tell the difference between those two cases. (But again, right wingers do the same things in the opposite direction. If you think this is just a left wing problem, then you aren't paying enough attention).

A lot of left wing issues require nuance. The fact that black people make less on average, does not mean that every black person must have less money than every white person. For a lot of people the idea that there was a black president is proof that the country is not biased against black people. The idea that Oprah has a billion dollars does not reject the idea that black people tend to have a harder time in America. Because as you say above skin color and gender are just two factors out of a billion. That idea that you are pushing as leftists being wrong, is actually a critical point to understanding leftist thought in the first place. Those two things should not be a factor at all. 

This is challenging for people to understand. Because we don't see the average experience of 30 million black people or the average experience of every white person. We only see snippets, anecdotal evidence. Donald Trump is not the average white person. No white celebrity is the average white person. No black celebrity is the average black person. 

Another issue: People are frequently sensitive and feel they're being attacked, when they're not. I've seen so many white people get upset when someone talks about how white people tend to have an easier time getting wealthy. They feel it is an attack on them. They worked hard for their money. Of course they did. 

This is just the most recent example that I saw, where people thought they were being attacked for no reason. 

I actually agree with some of your points against the right, but I feel like folks here keep addressing me as if I am on the right, which I really am not.

For instance, to use your examples, I never thought it was unfair that gay people could get married; on the contrary, I marched in the streets for same sex marriage in my country.

I never thought it was unfair for others to have the same rights as Christians either; I am an atheist myself.

My criticism of the left is not an endorsement of the right. 

Last edited by curl-6 - on 11 April 2024