| Ryuu96 said: Here in UK, Tories and Labour are pretty much only united in their support of Ukraine, which shocked me about Tories at first considering their Russian donors, Lol. Only politician really that I've seen say dumb shit about Ukraine is Corbyn and I was once a big fan of his. So in the UK, support for Ukraine is largely across both the right wing and left wing and there's no mainstream party which leans towards Russia. But UK and Russia do seem to have a special hatred towards each other, Lol and it helps that UK is more economically isolated from Russia, like, we really didn't have much need economically to pursue a relationship with Russia. Then when you add on Russia constantly threatening us (for some fucking reason), then having the gall to brazenly assassinate multiple people on UK soil with radioactive material and nerve agents. Safe to say from my experience at least, many Brits hate Russia. |
I guess that explains things, kind of. Now that you mention it, I don't think heard much about opposition to supporting Ukraine in the UK.
| Ryuu96 said: I agree with you. Some people are so sheltered in the West. It's so easy for some in Western Europe/Americas to say certain things because they don't know what it feels like, or they've forgotten what it feels like, they have no immediate threat towards them, in order for there to be one, there's multiple countries between them that would have to fall first. It's so easy for someone in Canada, America, UK, France, Germany, etc, to tell Ukraine to surrender. They don't understand how Ukrainians feel at all, they don't understand the situation Ukraine is in, they don't understand how eastern Europe feels because they in the West aren't in danger, at all, they don't understand the privileged position that they're in to say these things. It's also why it frustrates me when I see countries in eastern Europe doing more than those in the West on a % basis. |
Exactly. It's different when you actually have to consider the consequences right now, as opposed to deferring them until later. It's easy to say "yeah, I know the consequences" without really realizing the gravity of the situation and the consequences - and it's not limited just to this war, it applies to other decisions and assessments as well, but I digress.
I know we have a strong military here in Finland and the risk of Russia actually attempting anything stupid is fairly low, but it turns out that it doesn't necessarily take a lot to go through different scenarios anyway when the situation changes for the worse. Would I have to take up arms? Maybe, we have conscription here (quite popular, mind you, probably because it's been the only reliable way to deter a Russian attack). Would we get help/how much? Could I get bombed? Could I have to leave my home? Could I have to leave my country? Could I have to live under Russian occupation? What about my close ones? Who whould be next? You know, all the usual stuff... Except that no one should have to ever think about that, anywhere. I don't have trouble coping with the situation myself at the moment, but I'm sure some people have it worse even here. Must be much more uncomfortable in the Baltic countries, and I'm sure the Poles don't like the prospects of living next to the main part of Russia itself either. I guess that explains could explain why Germany has taken the situation as seriously as it has - not too many buffer countries between it and Russia, compared to some countries farther away from Russia.
But of course it's not just about me, or other people living close to Russia. If Russia feels confident with the result of the war, the next step they take could be to challenge NATO. It's not unfathomable to think that NATO could be divided in its response to certain kinds of aggressions, which in turn could lower trust in NATO's commitment to defending its members, and that could be a really slippery slope. We can't just trust that Russia will be content after swallowing up Ukraine, we have to be prepared for the worst as well (within reason of course, but the scenario I presented certainly seems to align with Russia's interests). As long as we're neighboured by trustworthy countries, we don't necessarily have to assume the worst, but Russia clearly is not at all trustworthy, so we can't leave any weaknesses for Russia to exploit. You don't just not use a seat belt just because it's going to be OK 99.9 % of the time without it, because the risk is still real, and preparing for it could save you. In this case, preparing also deters the worst from happening, so in a way, it's actually more powerful than a seat belt. And of course the further Russia is allowed to go, the costlier (probably in many ways) the involvement required from everyone will be.
But I guess everyone should just bend over if Russia comes with demands. I mean, it saves lives, right? Never mind the lowered quality of life, probably in a lot of areas, as long as no one (well, not too many people at least) has to die. It's perfectly reasonable to ask for that to save lives, who could possibly oppose that idea?
Last edited by Zkuq - on 09 February 2024
