US Politics |OT|

[Ryuu96]

zeldaring said:

Ryuu96 said:

"Russia had the right to invade Ukraine"

Yeah, I'm not even touching that, the dude is clearly a piece of shit and I'm not sure why anyone would seriously link that to help themselves in a debate, Lol. Russia has the right to invade and try to genocide an entire country? Look, just because someone is knowledgeable in one subject matter, doesn't make them knowledgeable in all and each foreign policy matter is its own complex matter. People can also be hypocrites as well, like those who hate American imperialism but look the other way at Russia's and jump through a thousand different reasons to justify it.

We've essentially had Russia straight up telling us "Yeah, we know we're bastards, we want to kill all the Ukrainians, they don't deserve to exist" and yet still people somehow make excuses for Russia, like JFC Russia doesn't even need to try anymore with their propaganda do they? Putin could straight up be like "I'll murder your family and rape your women" and people in the West will still jump in to make excuses for them, try to justify their actions, try to somehow blame the West.

You don't need to use some other dude to use common sense either, I've already explained how the NATO fear makes no sense, I've already explained how the nuke fear makes no sense, this isn't complicated either, it's basic common sense as to why these fears are clearly nonsense but lets pretend that Russia was genuinely afraid (Lol), that still does not give them the excuse to do what they did, I'm going to give quite the horrific thought experiment to you and maybe that will make you think otherwise, maybe not.

If your neighbour was paranoid (without good reason) that you were going to break into his home and so in his paranoia decided to strike first, he then breaks into your home, kills and rapes your family members and takes your home, then who is in the wrong here? Being paranoid about something doesn't justify going on a genocidal rampage but this is not about paranoia, it's about Russia wanting land/resources and Putin wanting to restore glory to Russia by the only way they know how, conquest.

Does Poland have the right to invade and slaughter Kaliningrad if they're afraid of Russia's possible nukes there?

Ukraine never showed any intention to invade Russia, to do harm to Russia, their military was nowhere near capable of that, quite the opposite in fact, it was Russia who stole Crimea from Ukraine by force and the West stood by and let it happen, it was Russia who incited insurrection in the Donbas, it is Russia who has stolen land from Moldova and Georgia and the West stood by and let it happen, it was Russia who stole and slaughtered Chechnya and the West stood by and let it happen.

Every single country in NATO joined by choice, nobody was forced into it, these are all sovereign countries and it's the peak of Western arrogance to think that certain countries, such as Ukraine, or those already in NATO such as Poland, can't think for themselves and are being controlled by big scary America. Many of these countries are in NATO precisely because they're afraid of Russia and for good reason, because Russia has not evolved past its Soviet-era mindset, it still believes it is "owed" all these countries, all its leaders know are imperialism.

Germany changed post-WW2, Japan changed post-WW2. Russia didn't. They dropped the name Soviet Union but it's the same old Russia.

You  make some good points and like I said I'm not really invested in the Ukraine war as palestine as I'm half Palestinian, and the US has killed millions in the middle east to support a apartheid country that main goal is ethnically cleanse Palestinians so I don't trust western media.

Those affected by that have all the rights to be angry at America but it's a mistake to apply it to everything, yes the West has done a lot of bad but that doesn't mean everything they do is bad, in the case of supporting Ukraine, it is morally the right thing to do to support Ukraine (even if some peoples intentions aren't necessarily entirely about simply "doing the right thing" but beneficial to them in other ways).

It's also a mistake to paint all western media with the same brush, this isn't Russia after all and there are western media capable of speaking out against atrocities committed by our allies or by ourselves and can do so without fear of being thrown in prison for "discrediting the country/military" as Russia does so regularly lately.

And it's not just America/Europe which supports Ukraine but also eastern countries and countries around the world.

This is a vote to condemn Russia's invasion of Ukraine and demand a full withdraw from Ukraine territory. Most of the abstains are from countries who need Russia and thus they're sitting on the fence. The only countries showing support consist of Belarus, North Korea, Russia and Syria, Lol. Hardly a group of countries that you'd want to be aligned with on a morality scale, Lol.

Even though they abstained, relations between Russia and Armenia are breaking down, Armenia who is part of CSTO, Russia's NATO equivalent and Kazakhstan (also a member of CSTO) is slowly coming out of Russia's influence, Russia is losing allies all over. Like I said though, you don't need the majority of the world to tell you that what Russia is doing is wrong, it's basic morality and easy to form that opinion by yourself.

Nothing excuses or justifies Russia's illegal invasion and attempted genocide of Ukraine.