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SvennoJ on 11 November 2023
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Ryuu96 said:

Don't really think we should compare who has the worst war crimes committed against them, Russia does equally as terrible things to Ukrainians as IDF does to Palestinians and by the end of both wars they'll both have causalities likely in the high hundreds of thousands to millions. We should call for a cease-fire but unfortunately I don't think IDF has any intention of stopping no matter what anyone says.

This is not at all like the Russia-Ukraine situation in other factors though, unless you mean that the EU is perpetuating it by not sending Ukraine what it needs to crush Russia and instead trickling out aid. If you mean perpetuating it by not doing a peace deal with Russia then that's not right at all. The West tried to warn Russia multiple times not to do it, practically had Macron on his hand and knees begging Putin not to go through with it.

The difference here, The West is aiding Israel in invading another region and killing innocent people, while with Ukraine The West is aiding Ukraine in defending itself from an aggressor. These situations are not comparable but unfortunately I see Ukraine being dragged into these discussions more and more after Israel started invading Gaza, criticising funding for Israel cause we're funding wars and dragging Ukraine into the argument too.

The messaging should be different on Ukraine, we are not funding a war, we are funding a defence, Ukraine's fight is for its survival. There is no peace deal, Russia does not want one, Russia has never wanted one, a "peace deal" only delays Russia's goal which is the complete takeover and ethnic cleansing of Ukraine. For Ukraine it's fight or die, they have no other choice.

The West is aiding them in that, the West is not deciding when Ukraine's war ends, only Ukraine has that say. These are the differences and yes, what the IDF does and has done to Palestinians over the years is horrific and the West can be and should be criticised for turning a blind eye to it. We should not be supporting Israel by turning a blind eye. We should be supporting Ukraine.

Goes without saying, Hamas is abhorrent too. Neither IDF or Hamas care about the innocents in their war, I feel sorry for the innocent Palestinians and Israelis caught up in this war and I honestly don't know the solution to this particular matter nor will I pretend to. This situation is far more complicated than Russia vs Ukraine. Netanyahu is a piece of shit too.

It's the double standards I'm accusing the West off. Jump to the aid of Ukraine, which is the right thing to do. But then not even willing to acknowledge the suffering caused in Gaza (and also the West Bank) for as long as I can remember, now doubting the casualty figures, downplaying the damage caused and standing blindly behind Israel. That is the problem. You have it right, "Russia does equally as terrible things to Ukrainians as IDF does to Palestinians" yet instead of sanctions and demanding / working towards a ceasefire, the US keeps sending aid and weapons to Israel, while blocking the UN to do anything by arguing over what language to use and making sure Israel stays protected from their neighboring countries so they can't intervene either.

And yes the Russia-Ukraine situation should have been finished by now with UN peace keeping forces in place. Instead aid and mostly old weapons keep trickling towards the Ukraine, keeping the conflict going. And now the US is postponing aid to the Ukraine to get 14.5 billion send to Israel asap.
https://apnews.com/article/house-israel-aid-ukraine-republicans-biden-gaza-b7bfe528b12ac5954cfd5c034f11320d Biden might still veto it though, not to scrap the aid to Israel but to get the full aid package back including Ukraine.

Yes support Ukraine, that has gone on too long. Netanyahu and the IDF should be charged as war criminals, as well as the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades and Mohammed Deif (leadership of Hamas military if Google is correct, had to look it up). The latter is not in debate though, yet for some reason the IDF gets turned a blind eye and only has to say, Hamas is hiding in hospitals and schools and apparently fuel their rockets with diesel and electricity etc.

I don't know what the way out is either. I do know that the Arab world will not trust the West again for decades to come. This war has far reaching implications for world safety, stoking up antisemitism as well as Islamophobia. Going back to the 1967 Oslo accords seems to be impossible with how much land Israel has grabbed since then. Yet a 2 state solution simply isn't viable anymore with how little fragmented land is left for the millions of Palestinians to live on.

It's a mess