SvennoJ said:
Jumpin said:
The thing about Final Fantasy is there are two different series with two fairly different appeals. Group A: FF1-3, MQ, 5, and 9 have flawless “Mary Sue” type characters. Group B began with FF4, exploring more rounded characters and more intricate storytelling—FF6-8 and Tactics expanded on that. FFX and onward followed the trends of group B, but because of the voice acting have a different sort of feeling to the previous games. I also think the “Group C” games (such as FF13) have stifled ambition because of the production costs—but that’s another discussion. While the characters in group A have literary traumas, they never seem to manifest as a character flaw the way they do in the Group B games. For example, Vivi is a clear version of the replicants from Blade Runner. He had the same wound as the replicants, being manufactured with a limited lifespan. The difference is it didn’t manifest as character flaws as it did with the replicants of Blade Runner. Vivi just kind of carried on, and it was like “that’s unfair” and that was that. In Blade Runner, the replicants suffered existential crises, which led to anguish, misery, desperation, and rage. It led to the rebellion against the creators in the Tyrrell corporation. The audiences are different too; although there’s probably a bit of a spectrum. Some audiences expect flawless characters and prefer clear-cut "good guys vs. bad guys" narratives—black and white. They don’t enjoy well-rounded characters unless other elements outshine the character flaws. Others prefer more complex characters who have flaws and strengths which drive story and conflict. Outside of Final Fantasy, I’d say a rough example of this would be the two versions of The Office. Mary Sue/Group A fans will like Jim Halpert, but at the other end there are those who will be more interested in Tim Canterbury’s story. I’d guess people are probably somewhere in the middle. To clarify, I’m not saying that ensembles of Mary Sue characters (like in the group A FF games) are bad—just a different way of creating characters for a game. One of my favourite games, Skies of Arcadia, has a cast of Mary Sue characters. They fit the game because the focus of the game isn’t the character stories, but the exploration of the world. It’s a joy seeing their reactions and amazement to discovering it. Just an observation: the people who “hate” FF8 by far the most are also the most negative people in these threads. Same behaviour as in other threads where they’ll bring up something they claim to hate, yet can’t stop discussing. A bit of a rot on these threads dating back to at least 1991. They seem to struggle with seeing things beyond black and white and also express their opinions as though they’re objective facts. Maybe they’re emotionally stunted? Maybe they’re just angry, negative people? But they also happen to all be gushing fans of FF9. |
Interesting points, yet I can't agree with the last paragraph. I am fairly negative / pessimist irl, usually deflecting with sarcasm, yet am fully in the grey / rounded / flawed characters camp. I loved both 8 and 9, as well as 12 (my favorite) and 13. 7 was good but I never felt anything from Tifa's (near) death, nor Zelda's sacrifice now in TotK, emotionally stunted as well? The best recent game to me is TloU2 when it comes to story. They all do bad things, get confronted with them and then have to move forward, that's the kind of writing that appeals to me.
Tbh I can't even remember the protagonists from FF8 and FF9, can't name them. I just know I enjoyed playing the games. Emotionally disinterested would be a better description for me. RPGs are often so drawn out I don't get invested in the characters. Whenever I get invested in games it's usually a love/hate relationship, even Everquest. There are rarely games that are all positive and certainly no big games ever apply to that.
Anyway grey vs b&w is a good point. Applies to many things irl as well. Maybe it's a conservative vs liberal thing, it does seem conservatives tend to look at the world in a more b&w manner. Or maybe it's a religious thing to push more towards black and white views. There are plenty liberals with black and white views of conservatives so I'm probably just talking out my ass :p
And I think the discussion between FF8 and FF9 was more along the lines of the battle system and easy difficulty, not the character arcs! |
I wouldn't consider you to be one of the most negative people on these threads. Your posts talk about the game you like, and go into discussion about them. Negative probably isn't the right word, I should say the shitty posters--the sort who come in just to take a low quality shit on a game. You know the type that respond to a question: "What's your favourite game of 1991?"
With the answer: "Sonic sucks!"
And that's about the level of their contribution to these threads. Generally the same people each time.
And I agree entirely on the politics thing, that's something I've thought about it too; although, I'm not sure a proper label - Conservative and Religious seem too broad/nebulous. Maybe fanatical idealists? The sort of people that get tribal develop a bias, and then allow that bias to eclipse the topic. And yes, I come across them on both the left and the right - as a leftist, I find it disappointing: an example there was the Bernie Sanders cult (not necessarily his fault), but a good number of his followers had elevated him to messiah-like status (crediting him as the inventor of positions that had been discussed/implemented for many decades to over a century in various places, including in the US)) - they'd attack other leftist leaders like they were heretics. But, I wonder how many of those people grew up in dogmatically religious households? Or if it is a psychological profile - nature vs nature?
Probably not the thread for this.
