PlayStation Nation |OT| Playing Astro Bot on the Horizon Until Dawn

[coolbeans]

DonFerrari said:

coolbeans said:

Do you have a built-in reflex to uncharitably read into my comments?  Even if your frustration isn't solely focused on me (noted), I've been WAY less hostile in my responses than this broader group you're bringing up.  Someone makes a claim or counter and I challenge it based on x or y reasons.  Being blunt isn't the same as insane anger.  

Which perfectly segues to your condescending question.  Again, just like with Don's responses, that seems insanely lenient.  I don't buy two Insomniac directors giving me two separate narratives thanks to time.  Hell, a Traveller's Tales founder went about dispelling the "impossible without PS5's SSD" myth by alleging that it was possible on PS3 hardware (albeit nowhere near as gorgeous), so these workarounds have been known for a while.  Acting as though Insomniac just happened upon a tech discovery that disproved their previous claim doesn't hold water.  It's easier to assume Marcus Smith was in hype-cycle mode while advertising his latest game.

Just to be clear, I agree with your annoyance at nastier fanboys who are practically frothing at the mouth and turning this into a 24/7 news item.  That's insanely cringe.  Similarly, I dislike the overly generous interpretation I saw from DonFerrari.  How his OG comment looked to me: "So, Sony and Insomniac were correct and good the whole time... r-r-right, guys?"  Again, I don't get how someone can see Smith's original quote and think the goalpost has remained in the same place.  Further, like I said before, this mud-slinging can be avoided more often if developers don't over-indulge in hype.  It's great that they love this new hardware, but it's better for them to advertise in an more grounded tone and leave spin to corporate.

When you say I'm being insanely lenient you can't at the same time say we are being very aggressive against you and that you are being of low hostility even more when you are indeed claiming they lied.

Again Insomniac was talking about their game running on PS5 and that its SSD is what made it possible, and that is comparing against PS4 which doesn't have a SSD (and even if you would install one the I/O itself already makes the rifts not feasible). It is people trying to make the argument in a vaccuum to try and find fault that is indeed in fault. Take CGI-Quality PC for example, it have 98GB of RAM so you can be sure that even with a rusty 5400RPM HDD it can run the game flawlessly because it would be able to basically load the whole game on the RAM (sure the initial load would take time but after that it would be smooth).

As I also said if you pick up Nixxes comments and would try to make the game run without Direct Storage (which wasn't available at that time and the SSDs of that time it would have hiccups and if you gone HDD it would certainly be an issue). HDD itself is a storage so as long as you can install and read the full data any format should "work".

When I was talking about losing the experience, and how that was on talk against PS4, if your rift takes over 1min instead of 1s that breaks the mechanic. We aren't talking about loading a new world, chapter, mission, etc, we are talking about stuff that is happening during the action. It taking 5s although not ideal yes wouldn't say breaks the mechanic.

Traveller's Tale founder have as much insight about the code and the mechanics of the game as anyone that isn't involved on the game. When he makes a game that is anywhere comparable to R&C we may take his opinion in count. Because saying "we had games that had transition during action" as proof that you could do the game on PS3 then we should go even further and say R&C could be done on PS1 because you had almost instant transition on Soul's Reaver. Making a single element of the game "work" very barebones and make the game itself could be made it very moronic. Because again if you make your whole stream loaded at once in the RAM (let's say make the current stage 1/3 of the maximum occupance of the RAM and then use the rest to preload the next 2 areas of the jump while you also load whatever newer sequence on the RAM meanwhile... that would mean you have a much smaller, bare, poor experience "to make it work").

If this type of game was possible before, doesn't it sound strange to you that it wasn't made before since there are hundred of developers out there? Go to the explanation from Mark Cerny regarding why the new I/O brought such improvement to the playstation. Making it easier, since you can load assets a lot faster from the SSD to the RAM you can then refresh that data a lot faster so you can make not only loading faster but also have more data being transfered for the action (like when he showed POV of the char that you would only load and process what was in front and let's say 0.2s of rotating view to each side instead of all the environment because someone trasversing or looking around would have stuff not loaded if they depended of the HDD to feed the RAM instead of a fast SSD.

Again if you don't want others to be agressive to you, you may as well avoid being agressive to others or trying to take  digs at them. I certainly said on the "insominiac not lying, right" segment that got you triggered as in mockery, but yep you may get offensive against me because that doesn't bother me at all. Still DF is clearly on the same page as me, because they understand context, which you seem to ignore to win the point.

All of which leads us onto one of the more inane discussion points we've seen: the fact that the game runs on slower machines with no SSD when Insomniac claimed that the SSD was essential for the game they'd created. First of all, the difference between the console experience and the 'very low' setting is frankly immense in terms of data transfer. Secondly, the comment was likely made in relation to the other development platform available to them, the PlayStation 4. In the video you'll witness the carnage of what happens when you try to run Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart on a launch PS4 512GB HDD - even the very low setting doesn't work and the game eventually crashes.

Jesus... this is partly why I dislike responding to you: this drive to filibuster the conversation down avenues that aren't really relevant.  They may not be "wrong" per se, but it's dumping more things before the previous shit has been resolved.  I keep getting roped back into a convo I didn't anticipate investing this much time in lol.  First, let me break down this whole "hostility" angle.

I think a core issue that'll come up regarding "aggression" with you is that English is your 2nd language, so just bear with me.  To be clear, I initially emphasized you being "way too lenient" and pushed the emphasis more after Runa was acting obnoxious.  But even then, I believe you're taking "insanely lenient" too personally b/c, in context, it's about you defending something/someone past a reasonable extent you would elsewhere.  Just b/c I use "insanely" doesn't mean I think you're nuts by default.  Do you follow?  And let the record reflect that I've yet to say anyone's "lied" like you've put it; in fact, I've disregarded saying that part out loud just so I can emphasize what feels like the bigger issue.  I'm not going to pretend I've been dainty & cordial, especially when I flat-out don't buy these counter-arguments, but there's a huge gap between my attitude and the broader fanboy example Runa brought up.  Any third-party can validate that.  Anyways...

Bro, you're literally diving into technical jargon that still doesn't get rid of Insomniac's first disproven claim.  As I've echoed before, when you look at Marcus Smith's quote ("Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart is a game that utilizes dimensions and dimensional rifts, and that would not have been possible without the solid state drive of the PlayStation 5.") there is no possible way you can say the goalposts haven't shifted.  As I said before, even Insomniac's own Mike Daly has conceded a game like Rift Apart could be done on PS4 w/ limitations.  Here's an article that adequately reflects and expands on my general sentiments to get the point across; it's critical while also not indulging in mouth-frothing rage against Sony/Insomniac.  

Again, whether you want to say it is/isn't a "lie," the moral of the story should be this if you're a developer: show excitement for your next game without leaning into console-wars hyperbole.  I don't think anyone disagrees with that specific point and I think that's the most important takeaway.  

Last edited by coolbeans - on 28 July 2023