By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close
VAMatt on 15 July 2023
Edit Thread
Ka-pi96 said:
VAMatt said:

You are right that government courts are also a problem. But, that's a different conversation. 

It ridiculous to say that I would be okay with slavery making a return. That's what you are supporting: Government controlling things, even though the institution has an incredibly bad track record, is responsible for the vast majority of human suffering both now and throughout history, and has been part and parcel of essentially all widespread slavery issues in human history. And, in fact, when you claim that rights exist that impose obligations on other people, you are supporting slavery.  It is impossible to have a right to a job, or a right to money, or a right to a big check on your way out of a job, without requiring other people to give you those things. If that's not slavery, I don't know what is. 

As for me, I'm definitely not rich, nor have I ever stayed in a shitty job. When the job sucks, I leave it. I've been a union member, son of a union organizer, a small business owner that's had the same employees for many years, in an area with an extremely competitive job market. Employees stay with me because I treat them well. I treat them well because if I don't, they will leave.  Plus it's the right thing to do.  But, you better believe that I'll fire you on a heartbeat if you are a drag on the company. The good people that have worked with me for years shouldn't be asked to carry dead weight simply because it sucks when you lose your job.

Governments ended slavery, and continue to do so. Just the other day I saw a thread on reddit from a Lithuanian guy in the UK who had his passport stolen by his boss and was having all of his (below minimum wage) pay taken by his boss to pay for rent and a made up 20k debt. The overwhelming majority of people suggested he contact the police ASAP. Because preventing slavery like that in 1st world countries is what the government does. Do you seriously think the police should just say "meh, not our problem, get a better job" when contacted about something like that?

How is having legal requirements to treat employees a certain way "slavery"? Do you even know what that word means? So you think a boss should be able to fire any employees that refuse to have sex with him with no legal repercussions at all? Madness.

And don't give me this "get a better job" crap. The vast majority of people on this planet can't just walk into a new better job. They would if they could, but they can't. And even if they're currently looking for a better job being unemployed doesn't pay the bills so they're forced to continue whatever job they currently have. Why on Earth shouldn't their employers be legally required to actually treat them like humans with dignity and respect rather than being able to exploit them and threaten to fire them for any little thing?

Wanting minimal regulation is one thing, but none at all? Seriously?

You're pointing to isolated cases where you think government did something good. I've never said, nor would I ever say, that government is incapable of doing good things. What I'm saying is that government is a net negative.  For every good thing it does, it does two bad ones.

Institutional slavery has existed in this world because government allowed it to. Government tracked down and captured escaped slaves in the United States just 150 years ago, for example.  Government in China is capturing and enslaving people right now. 

Anyway, if you look objectively at the institution of government and all the harm that it has and currently is causing around the world, then I don't want to see how you can possibly want government intervening in employment relationships.