(Business Perspective) Does MS really need Xbox Hardware?

[Machiavellian]

Azzanation said:

Machiavellian said:

So your first paragraph is something you need to think about.  If you do not trust the company you are supporting, than stop supporting them.  That is a great line if you have options.  In your scenarios, if I do not like Sony or trust Sony, with the absences of MS who do I go to Nintendo.  That would mean I would have to skip all the high end console games because the majority cannot be played on Nintendo system.  Do I go to PC, not all console games make it to the PC platform.  The question is never about if I trust a company, the question is that the market with competition gives options when a company breaks that trust.

Competition will always exists. We don't need flooded markets and companies trying to change the industry which can hurt the consumer. We have seen this from EGS with their anti-consumer business practices. Xbox will still exist, just as an Eco system. DO we need EGS? No, because if Steam stuffs up, they have Windows Store, EA Origins, U-Play, GoG and just about a dozen more store fronts people will migrate to. 

You continue to act as if Valve will never break your trust but its not always about trust of the consumer.  There are other dynamics to this than just the consumer.  There is also the developers and other vendors that uses Steam.  Without competition, Valve can always set whatever price they want.  They can raise prices and always seek to maximize profit over everyone else.  Currently Valve is not public traded company but who knows if that will remain as such.  If they do, then they have to answer to investors and the scope and dynamics of the company could change.  Any change in leadership can cause policy issues to change.  There is never a guarantee that what you believe Valve is today, will remain that way.  On another note, because Valve has been a digital monopoly for years, they have never needed to change their licensing structure.  So they can always charge 30% cut on game sales which mind you is something you do not feel but you can believe other companies do.  Now with MS store offering less of a cut including ESG, if those store front gain any traction over Steam, Valve will have to respond.  This dynamic in the market just seems to ignore because you like steam but that is not how any market works.

Maybe they will one day but they have proven that you can have a monopoly and still be the best gaming service in the industry. Maybe Valve might be brought out one day but as it stands, EGS tried to stir the PC pot and created plenty of backlash. That is not good competition. Good competition is if EGS entered and created a service on par or better than what Steam offers its customers.  

MS already sell their games on PC.  Gamepass can already be used on mobile.  TV streaming is no better than steaming on Xbox which no one really uses today.  Basically you are giving examples that MS already have in the market that has not elevated MS overall sales today but somehow these specific points is going to elevate MS now.  This is the part that does not make sense.  Its as if you are offering something MS doesn't already do today as a solution to tomorrow when those options today isn't bringing in the subs.  Then magically because MS get rid of their hardware, those same options they do today will  just increase 10 folds.

Since console hardware still exists, the Streaming/Digital market wont fully take off. Once you remove the hardware option people are going to flock to the most convenient Streaming service they can find. 

I do not know about you but I have a gigbit internet connection and even I do not use XCloud because while its ok for some games, its no where near what it needs to be for any fast pace game.  Even still, if you have multiple people in your home playing music, playing MP games, watching TV all that eats up your net connection.  Your solution only will actually be good for a very limited amount of people in the US alone compared to around the world.  SO just from my experience with XCloud before I had a fat pipe to when I did not, naw, streaming is a ways off.  One last point on streaming is data caps.  So a lot of US providers have those data caps which means once you go over that limit you get charged more.  If you want a no data cap net, you have to pay something north of 150 bucks.  Most households cannot pony up that kind of dough.

I don't disagree with you with this point, unfortunately that's how it goes. However, based on the Streaming Networks for movies, people have no issue signing up to multiple Streaming networks to watch TV shows so this will just be another adjustment we make moving forward. Just because i am saying this doesn't mean i support it either, its just how i see the reality of the situration.

It doesn't matter what you want, the market will determine who remains and who does not.  The market will weed out companies that cannot provide a product to entice customers and vendors to their platform.  The dominate platform today may be gone tomorrow.  Have we not seen that just in the gaming business alone.  There were many players that have come and gone, there will be many players in the store front that will come and go.  Some who are big today may be marginal tomorrow, that is how competition works.

The situation is that a monopoly is never great because sooner or later, the companies will always fight to maintain the monopoly more than they will fight to stay competitive.  Its not like we do not have years of evidence to this fact.  Also you continue to state that ESG come into being because of Steam, but I totally disagree, ESG came into being just like all they services, to make money.  Its not about them trying to take something away from Valve as them trying to entice customers to their platform, that is what competition is.

This point does not make sense, the only way that the streaming market would take off is if all the OEMs would go streaming, not the 3rd place console.  The 3rd place console has no authority to dictate the market.  No one is going to flock to MS service when they can get a hardware download service in PS+ that also will have all the exclusive console games from 3rd party developers studios and Sony own output.  Are you forgetting that Sony also has PS+ which is the same as GP with the only exception of putting their own first party games on the service day one.  The company that would actually be hurt the most would be MS.  First, without console hardware, their 3rd party day one release, how will that work.  As a studio why would you go with MS when now when there is no hardware option outside of the PC.  You have a game that you are making for consoles, your only real choice would be Sony or Nintendo.  MS without a platform would be your absolute last choice.  Next we get back to the same point, would Sony or Nintendo allow GP on their platform to compete with their own online service.  As multiple people have stated, if Sony or Nintendo did, that service would be neutered because there is no way Sony and Nintendo is going to let another service eat into their own.

The problem with using TV and Music compared to games is that TV and Music are not interactive.  Meaning that each can be buffered so the stream does not skip or have issues while its sent to your home.  You can still enjoy those streaming options even though they are not at the quality level if you purchased a BluRay 4K disc.  Steaming a game is totally different.  Case in point, I used XCloud to play Marvel Avengers game because I wanted to know if it was any good.  Just walking around on the Helicarrier was a laggy mess.  Every time I turned around the delay and laggyness nearly caused me to throw up because of how bad it was.  Now this is with my gigbit net connection with no body at home at the time using the net.  That experience is not going to be something anyone is going to sub to.  I did the same thing with Ghostwire Toyoko which was not as bad but Ghostwire Toyoko controls are such a pain in the butt that online its a freak mess.  I had to fiddle with the controls in order to get a sweet spot which took about 30 mins of playing around with the settings but the thing is compared to local, those control issues are magnified even greater.

Last edited by Machiavellian - on 02 June 2023