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curl-6 on 20 May 2023
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Hiku said:
curl-6 said:

- I didn't make the guns breaking analogy. I just pointed out that no, it's not the same because the weapons in BOTW/TOTK are themselves an expendable resource more like the bullets.

The core combat loop on the other hand is built around constantly cycling through weapons as they quickly break and are replaced. So yes, I still think that you're not meant to get attached, because if you were, the game would've facilitated this through weapons lasting much longer and repair being a major feature, like in something like Witcher 3.

- I was referring to its implementation in BOTW; I can't comment on TOTK yet, since if there is a point where it is reintroduced, I haven't reached it.

- You could argue that the weapons in Zelda are an expendable resource themselves. But you can't say that this is the equivalent of "bullets in *insert game", without accounting for the role weapons play in those games, or what durability does in Zelda.

They are different. And the primary difference is the breaking imo.

curl-6 said:

- That's not part of the game's primary gameplay loop though, it's tucked relatively out of the way so that many players aren't even going to come across it. Its inclusion at all is kinda at odds with the other 99% of the experience, and that is actually one aspect that I do consider a minor flaw.

Secrets are a part of Zelda games though. Don't know if there are hints about this in the actual game, but you have to wonder about the purpose of its inclusion. If not to keep some of your favorite weapons, then what for?

The core combat loop on the other hand is built around constantly cycling through weapons as they quickly break and are replaced. So yes, I still think that you're not meant to get attached, because if you were, the game would've facilitated this through weapons lasting much longer and repair being a major feature, like in something like Witcher 3.

They don't know which will be your favorite weapons though, so they'd have to apply the durability increase to all weapons. Which would have a big impact on the game balance.
Adding the ability to repair them at a later time seems like a more reasonable solution. The fact that it can be a cumbersome process doesn't though. But neither does climbing walls when its raining in BOTW, but they thought that was a great idea anyway.


Earlier you said that having permanent weapons would 'completely undermine the game's survival elements', and I asked you to explain that, but you didn't give one, so I'd like to ask for it again.

Permanent does not mean that the weapon constantly functions. It just means that the weapon will not disappear from your inventory when it hits 0 durability.

If weapons became unusable at 0 durability, and you had to leave the area or dungeon and go to to some NPC in a town to replenish the durability by paying with some other resource (like Rupees, or something similar), how does it 'completely undermine the game's survival elements'?

Or if the process of replenishing the durability of the equipment is the equivalent of finding a new copy of that same equipment?
But instead of getting an extra copy of that weapon, the durability of the one you already have gets restored.

They can adjust inventory space to accommodate for this, as well as how frequently you find the weapons based on how much durability you restored.
(Because finding a copy of a weapon and getting a durability refill when it was already at 99%, so you only refill it by 1%, is certain less rewarding than finding a brand new copy of that weapon.)

If anything it looks like this would result in the opposite of undermining the survivability elements.

- Again, it's not my analogy. Merely pointing out that likening them to breakable guns isn't equivalent because those guns aren't expendable the way BOTW/TOTK weapons are.

- I have to ask, are you referring to the ability to reforge the champions weapons and using Octoroks? While incongruous, these out of the way secrets are massively outweighed by an entire core gameplay loop based on cycling through expendable resources.

- Having them become unuseable and have to be repaired later wouldn't work as well, because then you're sending the player the message that they should get attached to and invested in specific weapons, and that mixed messaging would undermine the system. With a system like this, you can't go halfway, you have to commit to weapons either being something you attach to, or something expendable.

And I get that some people would rather get invested in a specific weapon they like. But there are countless games that work that way. People can just play one of those if they dislike it so much.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 20 May 2023