Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

[Bofferbrauer2]

Ryuu96 said:

It's pretty sad that they aren't sending any themselves (yet) and that they even have to do an audit of their stock (unless that is a lie), I'd have thought any competent military would already know what it stocks and the state it is in, especially for more recent equipment and shouldn't they have done this months or even weeks ago?

I think after this is all over, a few countries are going to be second guessing their military deals with Germany, Scholz has potentially done notable damage to Germany's military industry if other countries are spooked by Germany's actions over the course of this war, and Germany is meant to be a leader of Europe. I'm surprised (or maybe I haven't seen it) that KMW and Rheinmetall aren't more pissed at Scholz.

I'd feel a bit uncertain as a country if I couldn't send my tanks to an ally because of Scholz's scared, feet dragging and seriously start considering switching my Leopard's out for another supplier who fucks around less, I.E. America, UK or South Korea. Of course other things matter though such as who actually has the best tank for the environment...Not an expert in how Leopard compares to Abram, Challenger and K2 Black Panther.

They're heading in a more positive direction by finally not blocking others from sending Leopards, but if it takes longer than a couple of weeks to approve Poland's request (even a couple of weeks is being kind to Scholz), then Scholz can get fucked, Lol. It'll be pretty sad if we end up in a situation where almost everyone is sending MBTs aside from Germany though, I hope once the floodgates are opened that Germany will be alongside us.

Even if it would take months, since the crews need several months of training and that this will be provided by Poland already, it would still not delay fielding the Leopard tanks - at least not in an effective manner. But the faster the approval comes, the better, and it could also incite others to send their Leopards to Ukraine afterwards.

Scholz is like a relikt of the Cold War, a person who fears nothing more than Soviet Union Russia going nuclear, and thus tries to provoke the Russian bear the least amount possible. But it's too late for that: The bear is angry, but most of it's teeth are missing and it's claws are dulled. Still, it's a big angry bear, and it needs more than that to keep it from attacking, and he should support Ukraine to make it possible.

It could be that Scholz fears less Putin and more his hardline supporters, which Putin so far managed to sideline. It seems like those are much more trigger-happy when it comes to using nukes, and so Scholz possibly doesn't want to give them ammunition in their quest to escalate the war.

Still, that doesn't make it right, or anywhere close to it. I could understand if they just blocked the latest versions (2A6/2A7) to avoid Russia getting their hands on military tech to potentially copy/reverse engineer, but most Leopard 2 are A4 versions or derivates of it, which were build and designed in the 80's and 90's, so they don't offer anything that Russia doesn't know already from a hardware standpoint.

Also, it doesn't make much sense waiting for the US sending tanks to Ukraine unless you specifically want to not send any tanks. The M1 Abrams is very high maintenance (especially on fuel due to it's guzzling gas turbine), too much for an army with the limited engineering capabilities like Ukraine, and Scholz certainly knows that, too.

France at least is working on sending Leclerc Tanks. And this is despite the production lines of the Leclerc being closed already since 2008, so they are pretty much irreplaceable for France. As such, I can understand some degree of hesitance on their side, and why Macron has to work out a more specific option instead of simply sending surplus tanks. But at least He's doing something, not simply stalling like like Scholz

Last edited by Bofferbrauer2 - on 24 January 2023