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Soundwave on 12 November 2021
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padib said:
RolStoppable said:

The Zelda IP was steered in the right direction by Nintendo's businessmen because Zelda is the most expensive game to make and Skyward Sword's sales were unacceptable. Compare that to 2D Mario which is a mid-budget game at best and still sells north of 10m+. The requirement for business to really step in isn't there, that's why 2D Mario's fate is tied to Nintendo's creative side at the moment. The reason why I brought up Zelda is because Miyamoto put someone in charge who thinks like him. It's much the same for Mario where I've never heard Koizumi say anything about interest in making a 2D Mario game. That's why the drought isn't going to end with Miyamoto. One can only hope that the creative people in charge change their mind.

If I had a video game business, I wouldn't be upset if someone recommended me to make a sequel to a highly successful IP because there's a lot of business sense to it. As for Nintendo being allowed to do whatever they want, this brings us back to what I've said in the previous paragraph; Nintendo's artists are only allowed to do that as long as the business results follow, otherwise Nintendo's business side steps in and tells them to make games the fans want, not the games they want to make.

As far as I know, when Nintendo's business is doing well, Nintendo's business gives its inhouse teams a bunch of options for games to make and the teams can pick what they are most interested in. That's what Furukawa alluded to a couple of years ago. Problem is that no team will pick 2D Mario when none of the directors and producers are interested in it. The situation is like that because Miyamoto had a lot of say when it comes to who got promoted to higher positions. So the next 2D Mario isn't going to be ordered to be made unless Nintendo's business goes really south and Nintendo has to do everything they can to get back on track, but that's not going to happen anytime soon.

I'll reason it with you using your logic.

The business stepped in for Zelda because it's the most expensive to make. While you have no proof on this business decisions rule, I'll follow your logic for you.

If the business has money concerns for Zelda due to expenses, then they also have concerns for 2D Mario due to lost opportunity, using again your logic that 2D Mario is a sure seller (which in relative terms it right now isn't, but let's roll with it). So if it's a sure seller, then not making one requires business to step in according to your logic of keeping an eye on the bottom line (fyi Kimishima worked at Sanwa bank for 27 years then helmed Nintendo and then groomed Furukawa, check the Wikipedia page on him). 

Thus there is good news for you that if there is serious lost opportunity with this type of release, it will happen whether Miyamoto wants it or not.

Hopefully this puts you back in a good mood about it and you can forget this bs quite from Miyamoto.

By the way, I'll tell you a secret. They made NSMB Wii to cash in on NSMB DS. Nothing to do with accessibility of controls but to tap into the casual market. And they are now following the 3D Mario direction because they are following the money. And if they think they can squeeze money out of 2D Mario (if your view on its sales strength are also compelling for Nintendo's businessmen), then they will pursue it. Don't let the PR spin fool you. Remember this is an investor's meeting so some things are coded.

EDIT: As a matter of fact, all this quote tells us is that Nintendo finally has faith in the sales strength of 3D Mario after the success of some of its more expansive 3D games like Odyssey and BotW. So this is really just good news for 3D Mario fans and is just confusion for 2D Mario fans but inconsequential in the end. I can predict with near certainty that 2D Mario will be somehow revived in the next 4-6 years. With everything I outlined above, compounded with left-field releases like Link's Awakening remake and Metroid Dread, I don't see why Nintendo wouldn't follow this trend on such a promising release as 2D Mario. Again don't sweat Miyamoto, he's just PRing and doesn't have the authority to affect that opportunity being pursued. He just follows orders now.

I'm sure there probably will be another 2D Mario at some point, but yeah I think the points are valid overall. To be more specific, 2021 is just a different time from even 2006 ... whereas the Wii/DS were kinda trying to mine NES-era nostalgia and simplify the gaming process, the Switch is a different kind of system. The 20-30 year olds that drive the Switch market have grown up with 3D gaming all their lives, they don't get scared away by 3D games or 3D cameras, it's a normal thing for them. 

I think Nintendo is less concerned these days with everything having to be stripped down to the lowest common denominator and simplified overly so. Their games are still accessible just as they were on the SNES or N64 or GCN, but I think they're kinda stopping the whole "oh no, we can't make a 3D Mario or Zelda because it may be too complex for Wii Sports mom, or everything must revolve around this type of consumer". That line of thinking I think they've let go of. 

Their mobile games are tailored for people who simply cannot play games that involve more than 2 buttons, but if you want to play on a Nintendo Switch ... you need to understand how to use not only one analog stick but in many cases two of them, four face buttons, and four shoulder buttons and how to navigate 3D space or there's not a lot for you to play. The number of touch only or motion only games made by Nintendo are also basically very small. 

A new 2D Mario isn't going to be as big news as NSMB was in 2006 either. NSMBU is still basically a new game to people who didn't own a Wii U (which is basically 94% of the Switch audience) and that just released in 2019, so for most people this is not like 15 year gap and I think Nintendo also feels the same way. Also Mario 3D World is basically a "3D version of a 2D Mario" as well and again like it only sold 5.8 million copies on Wii U, meaning that there's a ton of Switch users for whom that's a new game entirely. 

But then you also have standard Mario 3D games doing incredible numbers on the Switch also ... 22 million for Mario Odyssey and almost 10 million copies of Mario 3D All-Stars which only got a few months to sell (almost definitely this would have hit 14-15 million otherwise).