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Machiavellian said:
burninmylight said:

They had Caruso's bird rights. and he wanted to stay there. There was no "he was pretty much going to leave anyway." If they wanted to keep him, he'd still be in LA. They let him walk. The money doesn't matter because they were going to be in the luxury tax no matter what.

OK fine, dismiss stats when they aren't convenient for you. Wins are what matter, yes. Guess what? Caruso and KCP were there when LAL won it all in 2020. You know that, because as you said, Caruso already has a ring. Why you think he wouldn't want more, like most athletes, is beyond me, but whatevs. Fact is, they are battle-tested winners. What has Westbrook, Ellington, Bazemore and Monk ever won?

Like you said, the Lakers two main guys, the ones that the entire team is built around, were hampered or unavailable in the playoffs. Are you seriously telling me that it's the rest of the team's fault that they couldn't get past the #1 seed and eventual WC champions without James and Davis? And do you honestly think that the Lakers roster as currently constructed, albeit likely unfinished, would have been good enough to get it done in that same situation?

Also, if a team cannot score points, then everyone should care about DPM... because if you can't manufacture enough offense, then maybe, just maybe your defense can carry you... all the way to a ring, kind of like what happened with your 2021 NBA CHAMPION MILWAUKEE BUCKS. Or your 2020 NBA CHAMPION LOS ANGELES LAKERS (Opp PTS/G: 107.6 (4th of 30). Forgive me if that hurt your eyes.

Forgive me as well for questioning your sincerity about your thoughts on scheme vs. individual defense. You are welcome to elaborate a bit more on this one and straighten me out. There's definitely a case to be made for one over the other, but I'll allow you to make it in support of your claim.

As for Kyle Korver, you knew I was being facetious, lol. He retired because he can't stay in front of anyone on defense or do anything in basketball that contributes to winning other than hitting an occasional wide-open three. That means he's washed. Like Carmelo.

Why keep Caruso's when you basically just replaced him for less money and did not have to go into a bidding war.

There are no bidding wars with RFAs, hence the adjective "restricted." The best another team that doesn't own his rights could've done was to tender an offer sheet, which LAL could have immediately matched, and voila, they keep the player. LAL didn't even give him a qualifying offer to begin with, therefore, LAL let Caruso walk. Technically, it would have been possible for LAL to keep him for less than what he got on the open market if it gave him a QO, any other team tenders an offer sheet for less than his upcoming contract with the Bulls, and LAL matches it within two days.

I am not dismissing the stats, I am saying that if you only look at the stat sheet but not the win losses you only tell part of the story.  The key point is that the Lakers without LB and AD would never have made it to the playoffs so they decided to go after another person who can score when both or one are down.  Will this work, who the hell knows but until we see how they work together its all just a bunch of opinions.  The thing is, the team was able to get Russ and also pretty much keep players who shoot above 38% from the 3 which is pretty standard for any team in the NBA at this point in time.  With no cap room, they still have the ability to spread the floor with the current talent of LB and Russ who need floor spacers.

I don't only look at stat sheets; I use stat sheets to explain wins and losses, especially because I can't even pretend like I watch every team in depth. A good analyst (not saying I am, just what I believe) uses stats to confirm what the eyes see. I also don't use basic counting stats most of the time because they can be misleading fool's gold; that's how GMs and fans get fooled into thinking Hassan Whiteside is a good defensive big because he racks up a ton of blocks, or that Andre Drummond is good for a team because he soaks up a lot of rebounds (or Westbrook for that matter... oh my gawd I wish the Lakers would have kept Drummond to pair those two together now ~_~). Conversely, it's why a lot lot of people think (or used to think) that Brook Lopez was a horrible rebounder, even though any team he is/was on is/was at the top of the league in team boards.

I use advance stats to confirm what I believe, not to tell me how to think. I also use them so that my beliefs and the points I make have some weight under them, because I'm not here for that "Yes it is! Not it isn't! Yes it is!" or "Because I said so", or "Player X is a bigger name than Player Y so he's better" type of reasoning. If I'm going to take a stance on something, then I'm going to show you why, and I appreciate it when other's do the same, even if we don't agree. Ultimately, I'm here to learn and discuss, not see who can shout in each others' face the loudest.

Back to LAL, correct in that they don't make the playoffs without their stars. Westbrook can carry them into the playoffs if they're missing LBJ and/or AD, absolutely. But I don't think getting him as insurance to ensure they make the playoffs is a good investment. Westbook is an 82-game player, not a 16-game player. The Lakers should be building a roster full of 16-game players right now. Who the hell cares about just making the playoffs if you're not ready to do anything once you're there, a la this past postseason?

Also, when Russ, LBJ, AD and Dwight are all on the floor at the same time, there's not going to be a whole lot of floor-spreading no matter who that fifth guy is.

Yes, its great to have individual defensive players but its the defensive scheme and how players communicate and work together that really matters.  Its the coach scheme to understand what the offense is trying to do and either take away their main option or have less capable people handle and shoot the ball.  Really how many iso defensive systems do you see in the NBA.

You still need the right players to make schemes work. Talent > coaching. You are welcome to disagree with both of those statements. I have no freaking clue what you mean by "iso defensive systems" though. Man defense? Is that what you mean? If so, then... the majority of professional basketball all over the world, not just the NBA? lol

Lets not just look at the Playoffs, do not forget before AD and LB got hurt during the regular season they limped into the playoffs.  If it was not for their start before the All Star break, they would have been sitting at home.

That was my point earlier. Can't blame the rest of the roster for how they finished. You don't suddenly expect role players to play like superstars when those shoes need filling. When AD and LeBron were healthy the year before, look what happened. Everyone did their job, Lakers are your 2020 NBA champions.

Yeah, I knew you were being facetious with Korver but to be honest when you brought up his name, I was like "Hey, what the hell is Korver doing and then I was thinking didn't he retire".  Lol, I thought that was an interesting article.

Been a fan of Korver since his article in the player's tribune about white privilege.

Personally,  I really do not care if LA ever gets another championship, my team is Miami which by all intent have made great moves and I see them in the championship dance.  My basic opinion on the Lakers is that they can make it work with Russ.  I believe they have the right tools and this will allow LB mins to decrease which is something I believe he wants.  Does that mean they will be a championship team, I do not care, but I believe they should be interesting to watch with all these old heads running up and down the court for 80+ games.

Aw man, fuck you then. We swept your ass right after you gentleman swept our ass the year before, then you took PJ Tucker from us. If you can't beat 'em, steal their guys. And I'm rewatching that first round series right now, and I don't appreciate all of that dirty shit you sore losers were pulling left and right. Get the fuck outta here. Go to the beach and get the Delta variant or something.

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Last edited by burninmylight - on 05 August 2021