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Mr Puggsly said:
Machiavellian said:

The problem is that its already late in the game for not giving employers power to hire cheap labor because this is not something that manifested itself over the course of a few years but has become institutionalized within the US for decades.  Its not different then sending out manufacturing to other nations due to cost.  Politically it sound all good and give people something to fear and hate but buying habits would need to change significantly before any of those jobs make themselves back to the US because the US depends on cheap products as they do with cheap labor.

You show me what stat shows an undocumented person receiving any government benefit.  I am not making this statement on some guess, I know for a fact that you cannot get anything.  You cannot get any type of food stamps or welfare subsidies because I know many undocumented people.  How exactly are they going to receive these benefits with no SS, worker permit or any form of government or state ID.  Even state wise its hard to get anything and unless marry someone who is an American, then you can get your children benefits but the undocumented work No.

Who said anything about which side is good.  I stated that what you mentioned was rejected by the GOP.  When giving the choice to bring some change to the system, they instead are more than happy to keep it the way it is even knowing they are feeding their constitutes BS.  The current GOP is the party of fear because it works.  They continue to feed BS and slight of hand magic tricks.  They fully know about the unskilled labor and undocumented workers but its their agenda to vilify the group while reaping the rewards.

You say that undocumented workers are worse for the country is that your stance because if it is, then its pretty much you living in a bubble.  Keep believing in that fairytale just like people continue to believe that those manufacturing jobs will be coming back to the US.  Its always good theater.

As for the crime point, I will address that one later as I probably should stay on topic as these post can get long.

I don't think we are talking about the same thing in your first paragraph, so I will just ignore it.

Its naive to argue they don't get benefits. Otherwise many would just live in the street completely destitute. They are getting assistance. I can even find my local news, which is left leaning pointing this out. I am not arguing they get the exact same resources citizens get, but there is welfare given to them as well.

Again, bitching about the GOP doesn't change the fact the open border policy is destructive and creating many problems. Border related crimes also way up, including violence.

Your comment on undocumented workers and jobs coming back, not relevant.

Really, did you read that article.  That is not welfare, that is containment before court date to either send them back over the boarder no different from any thing else.  If this is the best you could find I believe you should drop this point.  You are trying to tell me illegal immigrants can get welfare and I am telling you from first hand experience that they cannot.  Some how you are trying to convince yourself that they can secretly get welfare but you cannot find one policy within the welfare system that support benefits to undocumented people.  Somehow the government on state, local and federal is secretly giving benefits to undocumented people.

The naïve part is you talking about a subject you really have no clue on.  Why would undocumented people be on the street when we just had a discussion that they actually work.  They work way harder and longer than you probably have ever worked in your life.  Usually 2 to 3 jobs to support their family here and abroad.  Its the reason they are not on the street because they have a mission unlike the average American who has a safety net.

So basically you just ignored what the GOP is doing when they literally canceled the merit based plan you proposed and instead call me bitching because they offered really nothing of value but the same policy that has not worked.  Now that is what I can blind.  You do not know what an open boarder policy is because we never had one.  Show me this stat where border related crime is way up.  Way up over what and who are the perpetrators.