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curl-6 on 29 May 2021
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chakkra said:
curl-6 said:

Um, I never claimed those things.

On fixed hardware like consoles though, a 30fps game will have twice as much processing time per frame for not just the GPU but also the CPU, allowing for more computation to be put into things like world simulation, physics, AI, etc.

I don't know if the 30fps defendants are lying to themselves or what, but I think it should be obvious by now that developers are not using that extra power for physics and AI, seeing as we haven't experienced any advancement in that regard in more than a decade. And what does "world simulation" exactly mean?

I already said not every dev will necessarily utilize it, but a game like BOTW on Wii U could never have been made if 60fps was the minimum allowed, same for other games that are pushing the CPU hard.

World simulation can refer to all manner of moving parts and systemic elements with the world, from wind to traffic to crowds to wildlife.

Chazore said:
curl-6 said:

It may not mean all games will take advantage of the potential, but that doesn't change the fact that as long as we're talking about fixed hardware, and consoles sure aren't going anywhere, you're effectively halving your CPU as well as GPU budget by choosing 60fps over 30. As such, whether it's on Switch or PS5, a game can't be as computationally complex at 60fps as it could be at 30.

Yes but we are still seeing said fixed hw not being fully utilised for things such as AI, which I need remind you, I wish to see pushed forward, instead of us having the same typical AI that hides behind walls and muttering one liners or obviously running up to you or having to cheat just to stand a chance against you, and 30fps isn't doing it any favours at all.

Have you seen actual benchmarks between 30 and 60fps for PC hw, for the same games?.

I disagree with the very notion that 30fps allows for objective complexity over 60. I know full well you're fine with lesser this or 30fps that, but trying to ascertain that what you dabble in is superior (yes you are pushing the notion) is nonsense, when the industry is showing us it is not 100% that way (otherwise games would be 30fps for all of time, and you know that's how it would go, if your logic was objectively sound and fully utilised across the board). 

I'm surprised you haven't gone over this with Pem or CGI as in in depth study already, let alone reaching out to DF.

I'd love to see AI improved myself, though I was referring more to the number of AI entities that can be processed per scene than to their routines specifically, but the fact remains that 30 vs 60 is not just a matter of graphics, your CPU as well as GPU has to run at 16.67ms per frame to hit 60, which allows for only half as much processing time as 33.33ms/30fps.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 29 May 2021