The Pro Wrasslin' Thread (WWE, WWF, WCW, TNA, ROH, NWA, NJPW, etc)

[PAOerfulone]

JWeinCom said:

Yeah but that was in the era before weekly TV where we'd get sick of seeing someone win. Stone Cold and the Rock both went heel at points. 

Turning your top Babyface heel can work so long as the circumstances are lined up to where it can lead to huge success and more money for the promotion which is why Rock and Stone Cold's heel turns were so different.

Rock's heel turn worked because by '02, the fans had turned on him because he was leaving for Hollywood and felt like he sold out. So they wanted to boo him. Which was how we got Hollywood Rock, which in my view, is the greatest version of the Rock. Much like how Hollywood Hogan in WCW with the New World Order was just as, if not more popular, than Hulkamania. And it's for those two reasons why I'm still a little upset that we never did get Heel Cena, because the fans wanted to boo Cena as much as they wanted to boo Hogan after '92 and Rock in '02, and a corporate heel Cena, especially in '11-'12 against a babyface CM Punk, would've been AWESOME!

It worked with Rock and Hogan, it would've worked with Cena, and it's working for Roman now because the fans turned on them and wanted to boo them... unlike Austin.

Turning Stone Cold heel at WM17 was a HUGE mistake. And his Heel run in '01 was a flop. Even though it gave us some great, hilarious moments with Kurt Angle, there's a reason why by the end of the year, he was right back to being a babyface. Because unlike Hogan post '92, Cena post '05, Rock in '02, or Roman post-Shield, the fans NEVER wanted to boo him. There is no wrester in the history of the business, who was more over and more popular, at their peak, than Stone Cold Steve Austin. He's #1 in my view. He was so popular, he could've taken a crap in the middle of the ring and the fans would've popped. He could do no wrong. And in the weeks leading up to WrestleMania 17, he was as hot and as over as he had always been up to that point. Probably the worst decision they ever made at WrestleMania aside from ending the Streak.

ironmanDX said:

In regards to any regular wrestler, sure. Super late.

When it comes to their "guy" they plan on building the company around? Like Hogan, Cena... Hell... Even Bruno Sammartino never turned heel.

They pulled the trigger early in the context of who it was.

The difference between those guys and Roman was that they had already proven themselves as 'Top Guy' babyfaces capable of carrying the company to where they felt it would've been counterproductive from a business standpoint to turn them heel. 

Not sure about Bruno, but in regards to Hogan and Cena they did it the exact same way that Roman is doing now, they started out as heels, got over on their own as heels, perfected their craft as heels, and got so over and so popular with the crowd that they inevitably had to turn babyface. And then they were just as over as babyfaces as they were as heels. Sure the longer their runs went on, the fans eventually soured and got sick and tired of Hulkamania and 'Super Cena' when they were getting pushed too much at the expense of other guys on the roster *COUGHNexusCOUGH*. But there was never a question about whether or not they were over as Babyfaces and could carry the company on their backs as 'Top Guys', they absolutely could. 

The same couldn't be said for Reigns because he was never over on his own heel OR a babyface before last year.

Even though Reigns started out as a heel, he was over as part of the Shield with Rollins and Ambrose and they all turned babyface together. Then, when the Shield broke up and Reigns ventured on his own, he didn't catch on nearly as much with the fans the way Rollins and Ambrose did because those two had already made a name for themselves on the indies and had already mastered their craft the way Hogan and Cena did when they were given the torch, whereas Reigns was still very green. And the longer they insisted on it, the more it hurt Roman. To the point where finally, Vince had caved in and turned him heel and let him and Heyman run with this "Tribal Chief" character, and now FINALLY Roman is perfecting HIS craft and is now well on his way to being that top babyface Vince wants him to be.

Last edited by PAOerfulone - on 17 February 2021