Question to non-Americans

[Majora]

Eagle367 said:

Majora said:

Why do you get angry about what people did “back then”? Utterly pointless, unhelpful and nonsensical. I’m afraid getting angry about anything in history will do nothing to change it, so you’d be better off simply learning what is good to do and not so good to do and moving forward. Origins of science and maths and literature and art etc etc are all fascinating yet if you’re learning the core subject (maths for example) it’s utterly irrelevant who, what and where “discovered” the equations etc - it matters only that those who are learning it understand it now, in the present, to be able to do something useful with the knowledge. It’s good to keep the knowledge alive of who, what and where, for historical and cultural purposes, but pressing home the ethnicity or culture of the time of the supposed discoverers of anything is unhelpful and time consuming. Furthermore, being through the education system in the UK, I was never taught about the wonderful, magical European discoverers of everything under the sun; I was simply taught the core subject. I really don’t know where people get this idea that Europeans dance about the place thinking they’re the greatest species of anything ever in the whole universe, but it’s not the reality at all and most people are just trying to live their lives the best they can today. 

Don Ferrari disagrees hahaha. But to be serious, you clearly haven't taken university classes of maths and physics and other sciences. They mention a lot of people who discovered things. Also, the ancestors of those Europeans aka Americans now still mess with most of the world. Not most Americans, but the government. They can't keep to themselves and do shitty things like invading nations, dropping drone strikes on weddings, supporting terrorists , etc. 

But the reason I got angry was because someone said that the former colonies of Europe should have eurocentric studies. I don't have a problem with most Europeans today but history and how it's taught matters a lot. The way history has been taught for a while makes it seem like Africans were doing nothing before the European invasion which makes people in many regions have the misconception that Africans are lesser than somehow. Sorry but knowing history and how it's taught is very important.

Whether you like the fact or not, history has been full of the colonised and the coloniser. That is just fact. We will probably never know the very first person to ever discover anything, the best we can go with is the first person who’s work was preserved. We usually credit most of the initial scientific and mathematical discoveries and breakthroughs to the civilisations in the Middle East, not Europeans. We also credit the invention of written language to the civilisations of the Middle East (of course here I’m using modern language to describe a region). 

You don’t need to say sorry regarding the importance of  history because I’d wager that as an historian I understand and appreciate the importance of history as well as if not better than most. I’d also like to point out that when you’re arguing about these things, you yourself will also go looking for history that fits your agenda - confirmation bias. Unfortunately, the world isn’t so black and white, and rarely will you get the closest we can to “truth” taking this approach. You’re correct that I haven’t studied maths or science at uni, but if you did and your most pressing concern is worrying about the acknowledgement of Africa, then I’m afraid I feel it’s been a waste of time. An education in science should be based on the important and fundamental discoveries of that science and the teaching of its principles; if you’re taught in those classes about the exact precise moment in history person x, y or z discovered this or that and focus on their race, ethnicity, religious affiliation, birthplace or gender, frankly you are wasting time. That belongs in history classes. We have a finite amount of time on this planet and we cannot use that time to focus on every (or I should say, popular) grievances of every person since the dawn of time. If we do, we will go backwards and frankly it feels as though we are these days as identity politics has decreed itself the only worthwhile discussion topic on the planet. 

Edit - I’d also like to point the Chinese have one of if not the longest civilisations on the planet, and were fundamental in the discovery and invention of many, many things we all take for granted today. I never hear the praise for them or their impact on the world, yet nobody seems to worry about teaching about the many and impactful contributions the Chinese gave to the world; why is that? Well, I know why, but that’s not a discussion I’d have on this site. 

Last edited by Majora - on 22 January 2021