FarleyMcFirefly said:
Hiku said:
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There's a difference between attacking a celebrity, and attacking a forum member.
The celebrity will never read your comment here. But the forum members you tell to burn in hell will. So we take the latter more seriously.
Some people consider Trump responsible for thousands of avoidable deaths. (Whether you agree or not.) But no one thinks any forum member is responsible for any such atrocities.
So please keep this in mind.
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Celebrities are people too. We shouldn't be hating anybody. Hate begets hate. It starts with a forum post, but what does it end with? We have to take a middle road here: If Trump is responsible, are the state governors not also responsible? Are the local governments not also responsible?
No he hasn't handled this pandemic perfectly, but if we blame him for everything wrong, then we should also praise him for everything good that has happened in the last 4 years. It's just not reasonable.
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We have a responsibility as mods to make sure members feel comfortable posting here. We have no such obligation to celebrities. Doesn't mean anything goes, but our policies don't match your view on morality. Not saying you're wrong, but we disagree.
As for local governments, they are responsible to the extent that they employed bad policy. For my local government's part, I feel that my governor was very transparent and followed the recommendations of scientists at the time. I don't agree with every decision, but I feel that every decision he made was with the intent of doing what he thought was best based on available knowledge at the time.
I've given a pretty good list of indefensible decisions Trump has made. I'm not going to hold him responsible for everything that happens, but when he does things like hold large rallies with no social distancing, or tells a reporter wearing a mask to take it off and then accuses him of wearing it "to be politically correct", then those are things he is directly responsible for.
FarleyMcFirefly said:
JWeinCom said:
Got to disagree on many points here...
The people who are spewing hate are no better than the man they claim is evil.
I don't think hating something in and of itself is bad. Some people deserve hatred.
I never put unqualified son in law in a position of authority in dealing with a pandemic when he had zero qualifications. Nor did I contradict my public health experts as recently as three days ago regarding best practices to avoid spreading a plague. I also didn't go to a fundraising event and take no precautions despite knowing that it was very likely someone I was in close contact with had a deadly disease. I didn't go on record discussing how dangerous a disease was and then tell the public something different. Never ran a fraudulent university. Never grabbed a woman by the pussy without her consent or bragged about doing so. Never encouraged violence against people protesting me at a rally. Never lost a lawsuit for discriminating against black applicants to buildings I owned. Never tried to make it more difficult for people to vote during a pandemic or promoted conspiracy theories that had been denounced by my FBI director. Never attacked someone by bringing up their child's struggles with drug addiction. Never attacked a political rival's wife. Never publicly shamed a woman for gaining weight. Never lied about Muslims having huge celebrations on 9/11. Never mocked a disabled reporter. Never mocked a political rival for coming down with pneumonia. Never attacked political rivals solely based on their country of origin. Never said that someone wasn't a war hero because they were tortured in a pow camp. I never suggested that a recently deceased Congressmen might be in hell.
So... I dunno. I sort of don't think hating Trump makes me as bad as him. I think you'll have a lot of trouble backing that up.
I honestly do not believe Trump is this all evil person that everyone claims he is; if he was this evil dictator, there would be mass censorship on his end, people wouldn't have the freedom to protest or even say the disgusting things about him that they do. On the reverse, he is obviously not perfect. I wish he could be more blunt but have bedside manner at the same time (it is possible).
Simply not true. Trump really has no way to silence people on a massive scale because our system has protections against that. He's certainly called for many critics to be fired, called for boycotts of brands that spoke against him, and tried to use an executive order to prevent Twitter from disputing things he claims to be facts.
Trump is not a dictator, but he really couldn't be because of the institutions of our nation and the checks on presidential power. I can't say how far he'd go if he did have absolute power, but then neither can you.
How someone can place the Covid deaths on Trump just doesn't make sense to me in the slightest. The whole world was slow to act. The whole world has been affected. If you want a group to blame, there are at least 2 that come before Trump: The Communist Party of China for lying to the world, followed by the World Health Organization who echoed those lies, which lead to the world's slow response.
See above. We know Trump lied constantly about the threat, argued against his own expert's opinions, put unqualified people in charge of the response, and directly participated in events with an utter disregard for whether they were safe even AFTER knowing he was in contact with someone who had the virus.
There's plenty of blame to go around, but Trump's actions give more than enough reason to hate him.
If you truly think Trump is evil, fighting back with hatred will only create more hatred. Never has evil been ever to triumph over evil.
Well, we really hated nazis. We hated them so much that started killing them. Like, not even when they came here, we hated them enough to travel across the ocean to kill them. That's some world class hatred. And, while our actions weren't perfect, I think that hatred ultimately served the world really well.
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No, hate in and of itself is bad. It is okay to be angry. It is okay to be frustrated. But to hate? That is when we start to lose our humanity.
You can look at it that Trump lied, but you can also look at it that Trump truly did not want to panic people. I mean, I was panicking and made a stupid thread back when this thing started. Going crazy over toilet paper. Imagine if Trump panicked everybody? People tend to do stupid things when they panic, when they are overly emotional, when they are filled with hate.
Try taking a middle road. Yes, there is true evil in this world. Yes, Nazism was evil.
But violence is only acceptable under one condition: self defense. That is what I believe. That is what I believe the military is for.
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First off, nobody is advocating violence. Anyone who did would be moderated.
Secondly half of the examples were ignored... but w/e...
As for the "he didn't want to panic people", no absolute bullshit.
I will just grant for argument's sake that being honest would have scared people. I'll even grant that telling people "listen to the scientists and wear a mask" would have been too much for America to handle back in March.
Five fucking days ago, Trump downplayed the value of masks, and lied about Dr. Fauci's position on it. Would telling people five days ago "one of my leading experts says we should all wear masks" have sent the county spiraling into chaos? Give me a break.
And then, after sharing a plane ride with someone who was symptomatic, he still decided to attend a fundraiser where he took no precautions to social distance or observe other safety precautions. This was a private event. Would cancelling it have caused mass panic? Would spacing people 6 feet apart or wearing masks have caused the country to fall apart? Obviously not.
Dunno if you're trying, very poorly, to support Trump or if you just genuinely want to see the good in people, but no. He knowingly exposed people to a deadly virus. And it wasn't to avoid causing a panic, it was because it was a fundraising event and he wanted funds.
And Trump has no concern at all about making people panic. He wants you to panic about the rapists coming in from Mexico, he wants you to panic about non-existent voter fraud, he wants you to panic about the evil liberals, he wants you to panic about non-existent Muslims celebrating on September 11th, and Hillary Clinton coming to take all your guns away. Half of his campaign speeches are telling you about shit to be scared of.
Hatred is natural and can be a healthy motivator. People should hate Donald Trump for his abysmal job handling this crisis, which was clearly for the purpose of doing what he thought was best for him. And I hope that hatred will drive people to the polls or mailboxes to get him out of office.
