KLAMarine said:
Spoiler!
I hear you on the survivor guilt but I'm still confused by Ellie getting mad at Joel after he sticks up for her in the bar against "bigot sandwiches". What the hell was that?..
These characters were great in TLoU1 but now these characters have been ruined in the sequel. |
Well you have to say that or else your red pill credentials would be revoked.
I hate to use a maternal-sounding cliche, but "that's a teenager for you!" I mean as you can gather from the dialogue at various points, Ellie doesn't really understand why that was her instinctive response to Joel defending her and Dina from Seth either, but personally I think there are two factors here:
1) Ellie's a teenager. An older teenager. She wants to establish her independence, including from Joel, like teens her age are often positively desperate to. I can remember in my senior year in high school there was a time I was sitting in church with some kids and young adults in my general age range where we sat and they were making me pretty uncomfortable. My mommy noticed and approached the pew and "rescued" me from the situation, evacuating me to sit with the family. Ooooooh my god, I was SO embarrassed! I mean I wanted out of that situation, but not like that! My mom was totally oblivious to the social cost to me of her publicly "rescuing" me like that. I think when you're that age, you kinda just want your parents (or parental figure in this case) to butt out and let you solve your own problems. I imagine this kind of thought process being part of Ellie's mindset here. I don't think she realized how sympathetic her peers actually were until after.
AND
2) Also, and really more importantly, she and Joel have formally parted ways, remember? She doesn't want to be associated with Joel anymore at this point. This goes into the survivor guilt issue on some level. Although they've begun to reconnect recently, there remains a certain considerable emotional distance between them.
BUT, these things said, this incident, as we learn toward the end of the game, actually served as a catalyst for a breakthrough between Ellie and Joel. Ellie does seem to actually appreciate Joel's intervention on some level even if she's not willing to formally admit it. What she seems to appreciate about it in particular is the implication that Joel is okay with Ellie's sexuality. You'll recall that that was a matter of real question in Ellie's mind for years. She suspected Joel wouldn't understand. Many parents don't. Mine didn't. Much of Ellie's issue with Joel in general since learning the truth about what happened back at the hospital especially has been trust. This incident with Seth, and Ellie's subsequent conversation with Joel, has the side effect of restoring some of Ellie's trust in Joel indirectly. She can be more open with him than she previously thought she could.
So it's a complicated thing, in other words. All of these things seem to be part of the mixture of Ellie's feelings here.
