(POSSIBLE SPOILERS INSIDE) The agenda and political discussion of Naughty Dog

[Alara317]

Immersiveunreality said:

Alara317 said:

OF course I don't know you, I can only go based on what I see on the forum and almost all of your comments I've seen are some variation on encouraging people not to act or not to 'jump to conclusions'. You're complacent, that's the most apt descriptor of the way you go about things on here. 

And for the record, I DO attend protests, I DO get involved with local politics, and I DO take an interest in actively doing something to better my community. And one thing I've learned in 12+ years in the system is that it's pretty easy to tell the early signs of bigotry and hate. One of the key factors in identifying potential radicals or potentially dangerous bigotry is how they act online and how they react. If someone is on facebook or Reddit or any other online forum (This one as well) vocally complaining about agendas and SJW nonsense, that's almost always an indicator that they're more likely to protest positive change in the real world as well. I've dedicated much of my life to understanding these factors, and your constant undermining of any efforts I or anyone else has taken to proactively fix the issue before it gets really bad is NOT helping. 

You are not helping. Complacency only helps the oppressors. 

I'm not being condescending and I'm not being complacent. I'm sick and tired of clearly bigoted behaviours being tolerated as 'normal' or in any way acceptable. I'm sick and tired of people worldwide waiting for Charlottesville or George Floyd or the Orlando Nightclub shooting for people to take action. I'm sick of 'thoughts and prayers' being enough. They say an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. You're here refusing to put in any preventative measures and complaining when the cure is too aggressive. 

You are not helping. Complacency only helps the oppressors. Stop being a hypocrite and stop acting like inaction is somehow the only noble course of action. Things need to change, and there are many ways to enact change. One of the best and earliest ways to enact that change is by altering public perception, which art can do. Games like The Last of Us might appear to glorify violence, but the visuals and that sinking feeling you get in your gut are exactly how they plan on making some people realize how terrible things are. It makes you uncomfortable, which is why it's effective but also why it's pissed so many people off. The whole lesbian and trans issue in the game is literally an example of normalizing this sort of thing, and it makes people blow a fucking gasket then wiggle around to justify their hate. This entire thread is a testament to how far people will go to justify hate and devalue any attempts people make to try and make the world a better place. 

I definitely don't think you're a bigot (none of your posts support hate or ignorance), but you're exactly the kind of person who is just getting in the way by crying about both sides being hateful and violent. Your 'take no action until it's too late' behaviour is making things worse and you're just obstructing progress in either direction. You can say you're active all you want in the real world, but all I have to go on is what you post on the forum here and every post I've seen of yours on the topic basically boils down to willingly turning a blind eye to any preventative or progressive actions. I reiterate, I don't think you're a bad person and I don't get the impression you're trying to encourage bigotry or anything, but you need to know your behaviour and stance on so many issues is NOT helping the way you think it is. 

Progressive actions? The progressive actions in your posts are nonexistent and you just add to tribalism in an online space.

I do understand your point of view and i do not think it is a healthy way to deal with problems for others and for yourself,i have had this behaviour myself before and i have grown out of it cause all it did was pulling me down and creating more conflicts.

Do you think you can fight bigotry with calling names and do you think you wont give bigotry more reasons to behave the way it does by doing so?

Try to put effort in changing people for the better without acting vindictive towards them and you will get better results,you might actually have a chance at changing someones bigoted view on others.

(outside of this different view on things between us i do not mean to offend you in any way and i do think you are a good person so please keep that in mind)

Like I said, I've been doing this for 12 years. the ideal of peaceful agreement is nice when it works but an overwhelming majority of the time it doesn't. Ideally, I'd prefer if we could all discuss the pros and cons of each stance and come out better people in the end, but the reality is that people are naturally tribalistic and the more you tell them they're wrong - even if you're doing it with the best intentions, the best facts, and the best logic - the harder they'll work to stand their ground. Everyone THINKS they're openminded and willing to change, but almost no studies prove this to be the case. Almost everyone resists change and fights opposition, them being right or not is irrelevant. 

So, with that in mind, arguing with someone on the internet isn't so much about changing tHEIR minds - it never was since it's so rare for that to happen - but to change the narrative for those watching and observing, to sway the people on the sides who haven't made up their minds yet. 

And unfortunately, simple but wrong answers are SO much easier to accept than complicated, right answers. 

Take the 'black on black crime' argument that bigots like to tout. On the surface (and if you're already predisposed to bigotry) it's easy to see a stat about black on black crime being higher than black on white or white on black crime and say 'yep, those terrible blacks are just more predisposed to crime' and leave it at that. However, a single statistic doesn't explain WHY that might be, what factors were considered to get there, where the stat was from or the social fabric that allowed this to happen. It doesn't factor in the very real astroturfing of systemic racism, it doesn't factor in how for decades black people were forced into ghettos where they had less access to the means to help themselves and therefore were in tighter, more dangerous situations. The statistic might have some truth to it, but there's a lot more going into it. 

But to an observer of this argument, it's so, SO much easier to just see the stat, say 'yep, they're all bad people' and leave it at that. IT's the easier, shorter answer and thus the one that can be spoken louder and more repeatedly. The easier, wrong answer is the one that carries.

That's why it's so important to not be complacent. that's why education is so important. that's why it's so frustrating to see you and others so vehemently against taking action or loudly countering the wrong arguments and bigotry that people like LonelyDolphin are tacitly endorsing. Whether LoneyDolphin is a bigot or not, he's saying bigoted things. What he believes for real is irrelevant, because he's still saying 'AllLivesMatter'. And, to someone watching, that's a true statement. all lives do in fact matter. But that strips away all the nuance of why "BlackLivesMatter" is so important. He continually ignores the explanations on how it doesn't mean Black Lives matter More or ONLY black lives matter. IT doesn't mean white lives don't matter. He and others on this forum regularly ignore stuff like that because it's inconvenient and all they see is an insult against them or some weird sort of counterbalance that they think has gone too far in one direction. 

Again, the wrong answer and the wrong interpretation of the movement is what carries becuase it's easy to ignore the reality of the situation in lieu of 'yeah, all lives DO matter'. And that's why I won't interact with him. The more I get him to talk, the more he gets opportunities to push that inherently bigoted agenda. all I can really do with him is say 'you're wrong, and your views are bad' because anything more than that validates his viewpoint as somewhat justified. If I argue with him on a level playing field, it gives the impression to other onlookers that his stance on any of these matters has value. 

It doesn't. 

He's wrong, and you acting like I'm unethical for saying so gives him and his stance more power. 

THAT is why I'm so vocal about this stuff.