vivster said:

KiigelHeart said:

How can they be sure which deaths are caused by corona? Lockdown and hysteria will also kill people.

Here in Finland, doctors are worried that many severely ill people aren't going to the hospitals anymore. 30% less people have gone to cardiologists for example. They're afraid to catch corona but end up being at for greater risk staying at home.

I'd expect this has been far worse in US past month with all the panic. And there was been much more people dying by heart failures...

The panic isn't even close to being as much as causing a multitude of additional heart failures. They're diagnosed as such because they're not tested for anything else. You know what else makes your heart stop beating? Not being able to breath.

Since the US has a vested interest to cover up COVID19 deaths I doubt we'll ever get any accurate numbers before the year is over and we get a tally of total deaths. Of all the western countries the US should not only have the most COVID19 deaths but also by far the most deaths caused indirectly due to people not getting the care they need.

As I understood, many deaths at home are not tested for COVID-19 either. I read it was thousands of deaths reported as COVID-19 without testing.

What makes your heart stop beating is usually a coronary heart disease that stops the heart from getting oxygen. Most people probably had this condition and were then pushed through the edge by either COVID-19, heavy stress load, increased alchohol consumption at home, not going to hospital for treatment etc or all of the above. Corona would be the biggest factor of course, I'm not disputing that. 

But yeah, if these people had heart attacks simply for not being able to breathe because of corona symptoms, and they still didn't go to hospital, it's pretty fucked up. Unnecessary deaths..

JRPGfan said:
KiigelHeart said:

It's not a ten fold increase though. I agree it doesn't explain all of the increase, but it would still be misleading to report all of them as COVID-19 deaths.

Serious cases should be treated at a hospital. Paints a sad picture of US healthcare system if people stay home while suffering such bad symptoms. 

hmmm close enough? 

read this:

JRPGfan said:

“Out of the 12 [cardiac cases], I did on Sunday 10 had COVID symptoms. Flu-like symptoms, cough, etc. Nobody made it back. That’s going on all over the city,” said Anthony Almojera, vice president of FDNY, EMS union local 3621.

“There’s gotta be 200 a day… obviously are not all COVID, but they aren’t being tested,” he said.

The FDNY confirmed that paramedics are seeing more than 300 calls for cardiac arrest with “well over” 200 people dying each day. Typically paramedics would deal with around two dozen deaths on around 54 to 74 cardiac arrest calls.

So normally theres ~50-75 calls for cardiac arrests, calls each day. Out of these ~24 or so die.
Now they have 300+ calls each day, and over 200 pr day dieing? and its not noted as due to Coronavirus.

"New York City’s death toll — which surged past 3,000 on Tuesday — only includes the number of confirmed cases. The city does not test people for the disease after they’ve died — even if they end up in the Medical Examiner’s Office after fighting coronavirus-like symptoms."

Number of deaths due to this thing is being under reported by alot.

If you go from a "normal" avg of ~24 deaths due to heart attacks pr day.
To suddenly haveing 200+ every day.

Thats basically a factor of 10.

Just a "odd" coincidence most of these happend to have Covid19 symptoms before haveing heart attacks? yet wheren't tested for it after they died.
Cause of death noted down = Cardiac arrest.

I would not be surprised if in the US, you guys arnt counting nurseing homes, hospice,... or home deaths, correctly, or to the same degree as most european countries have.  Basically there could be twice as many deaths due to covid19 in the USA right now, as shows, and I wouldn't even be surprised.

Other news sites reported it's 4-6x increase on average during certain time period. So not ten fold. 

Testing dead people is tricky as far as I know. I'm a police officer and I've been to two home death scenes where people died after having COVID-19 symptoms. We would've liked to know for sure if these people had it but doctors said testing dead bodies is unreliable and they won't do it.. 

Both these cases had been drinking heavily for weeks before dying so who knows. I'm still healty though.