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goopy20 on 21 March 2020
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Conina said:
goopy20 said:

We've already went over scaling a million times. Well optimized console games don't use ultra graphics settings that take too big a hit on performance with relatively little gain in visuals.

You understand that "ultra graphic settings" is just an arbitrary name? Settings that are currently called "ultra" will be called "medium" or "high"  in future games. Settings that are currently called "medium" or "high" will be called "low" in future games.

Diminishing returns of current "ultra settings" compared with current "medium" or "high" settings will probably be very similar to diminishing returns of future "medium" or "high" compared with future "low" settings.

goopy20 said:

Fact is if you have 2 different SKU's with such a gap in specs, one console will always be held back by the other. Like Otto said, Minecraft with Path Tracing runs at 1080p/30fps on Series X. Now you tell me what looks better, Minecraft running at native 4k or 1080p with path tracing? 

Minecraft + Quake 2 RTX are extreme examples where the raytracing version needs one or two magnitudes of performance than the non-raytracing versions.

So let's have a look at other games which aren't 10 year old indie games or 20 year old classics.

  • Battlefield V at native 4K without RT or at 1080p with RT. Now you tell me what looks better.
  • Metro Exodus at native 4K without RT or at 1080p with RT. Now you tell me what looks better.
  • Control at native 4K without RT or at 1080p with RT. Now you tell me what looks better.

That's not so easy to answer and opinions will widely differ, especially with different TV sizes and distance from the TV and preferences.

goopy20 said:

Now sure, you could say Path tracing also takes too big a hit on resources and it's not going to be viable in big AAA games. However, what about Indy games? I'm sure they could come up with some pretty cool games that could use path tracing as a gameplay mechanic, but throw Series S in the mix and that's already not possible.

And why shouldn't it be possible on Lockhart with reduced resolution and/or reduced number of rays?

I know how graphics settings work on pc. My point is that if developers have a game that's completely optimized to run at 30fps/1440p on Series X, it's not going to be using overly expensive graphics settings that can be scaled down that much on Series S. Not using them is the whole point of console optimization. The only thing they could do is lower the resolution and we would be looking at sub 720p on Series S compared to 1440p on Series X. There's no way MS will target sub 720p on Series S as that'll look like a blurry stain on a 55 inch tv. Therefore, they will likely aim for 1080p on Series S and it will limit the ambitions of the Series X versions by just having native 4k and a higher fps, pretty much like we're seeing now with X1X and ps4 pro. 

Minecraft and Quake 2 are the only games we've seen so far that can run in full Path Tracing, which is different than the type of Ray Tracing we're seeing on games like BF on pc that just add some reflections and shadows. It's far more impressive as it reads and account for every element of the game’s graphics, whether above, below or behind the player’s camera. It's what we're seeing in Pixar movies and basically it can completely alter the mood of a game. It's also far more expensive to use so it's unlikely we will be seeing it in AAA games. However Indy games should be able to do some pretty cool things with it where it can become an integral part of the game design and not just something you could toggle on and off. However, games like that would likely be running at 1080p/30fps on Series X and there's no way they could make it run on Series S.

 

Last edited by goopy20 - on 21 March 2020