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goopy20 on 16 March 2020
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CGI-Quality said:
goopy20 said:

I'm using the 2080Ti as an example because it's the most powerful, most expensive gpu you can buy right now

No. That would be a Titan RTX and no console GPu will see anything close.

performance wise they are saying Series X is a pretty close match.

To a 2080Ti? We'll review that below.

For me that's something to get excited about and I'm also expecting a big leap. However, even a 2080ti can hit its limit pretty quick when we're talking about native 4k, RT and ultra settings.

I never said a 2080ti can't run any current gen game in native 4k/60fps

As a matter of fact, you did

"Why could, or should these next gen console aim for native 4k when even a 2080Ti can't even hit 60fps on current gen games at that resolution?" 

I said there already some games that don't.

Wrong. See above.

So assuming Rockstar will want to push visual fidelity ever further than a RDR2, for example. Wouldn't that be pretty hard when half the resources are "wasted" on native 4k? It's a design choice where they'll either pick the biggest leap in fidelity possible and figure out the resolution later, or they'll aim for native 4k from the start and use what resources are left to build their game. I'm not saying native 4k is terrible by definition, if a developer can get everything they envisioned in their game and still have the headroom to run it in 4k, then great. However, I think it would suck if native 4k would be a mandatory design choice from the start and it gets in the way of ambitions for next gen titles in general.     

I already answered the question proposed in this paragraph. Nothing will be 'mandatory' and native 4K will not be a significant problem for games next gen.

Read The Bold.

   

XBOX SERIES X (SCARLETT)

2080Ti

We'll use all of the things that console people love to talk about and then others. Theoretical performance "ze terafloppies"? Goes to the Ti. Memory bandwidth? The Ti. Memory Clock? A Tie. Memory Bus? The Ti. Texture Rate? The Ti. Pixel Rate? Scarlett. Transistors? The Ti. RAM? The Scarlett. Those are the majority of things that matter, even though the Scarlett is missing Tensor Cores right now (yes, these matter, especially for RT)

Even mentioning all that, you cannot compare them 1:1, once again, but if you try, the Series X (or Scarlett, specifically) is a closer match to the 2080 SUPER.

It wasn't my intention to start a debate over which gpu is more powerful. Whether Series X is on par with a 2080ti or a Super, I,m sure we can agree that it has amazing specs regardless. It will probably be $599 or more, but that's fine by me and for those who think it's too expensive, they can always wait for a price drop. I'm pretty excited about Series X but my main concern is this whole cross gen and 4Tflops Lockhart thing. 

I just don't see how they can really fully optimize Series X games to look as good as they possibly could, while their 1st party developers constantly have to think "will this run on X1 and/or on 4Tflops too". Obviously, if MS's 1st party studios were to aim for native 4k by default and use inefficient ultra settings on Series X, it would be a different story and yes, then they could just drop the resolution to 1080p, scale down some of the ultra settings and it will run fine and look pretty much identical on Series S, at least to the masses. But imo that's not the best way to optimize a next gen console. It's basically like saying a 2080ti is not capable of pushing out more impressive visuals than Gears 5 at 4k with insane graphics settings. We both know it can, but maybe not in native 4k and while using inefficient ultra settings.

So if the ps5 is 10Tflops and they could optimize their games purely for visual fidelity, use checkerboard rendering, be as efficient as possible (with no ultra graphics settings) and aim for 30fps, wouldn't Sony's 1st party developers be able to get far more impressive results out of the ps5, even if Series X has the Tflops edge? Maybe I'm missing something, but I just feel Lockhart will just be holding the Series X back, just like the Xone is holding the X1X back right now. With the X1X that was to be expected as it came out years later and wasn't mean to take a massive leap over Xone and leave the main userbase behind. But if they would've launched at the same time, one of them surely had to be holding back the other, depending on what the base platform would be. 

Last edited by goopy20 - on 16 March 2020